One people

We certainly have an interesting situation on the political scene. Don Brash has a very good point in that he wonders how long New Zealand will have ‘The People, and ‘Our People'. He does raise an important point, very skillfully avoided by most candidates for parliament who might just lose a couple of votes along the way. Is this a system that will go on for another hundred years because many chose to look the other way; perhaps the head-in-the-sand trick? Some political parties use the above to score a point and a seat in parliament. The Metiria Turei saga is an example of the many who find it too easy to work the system. Let's have ‘One People' with equal rights for all, then we all win. It will happen, the question is when Jacinda?              

R Chamberlain, Otumoetai. (Abridged)



76 Comments

Damage control won't work rocco.

Posted on 06-09-2017 08:23 | By R. Bell

Crazyhorse is a loose cannon, always has been, always will be. Any truth he may luck onto gets buried in the repeated, exaggerated bull**** that he is now famous for. Take some well meant advice,"forget the extreme politics, drop the racist attacks, quit your tendency to insult and you and crazy may have a chance. Robin Bell.

Crazyhorse, your theories are not facts

Posted on 06-09-2017 07:29 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, your ideas about the terrible things that you believe Maori will do to us in the future are only theories not facts. Since 1975 all that has happened is that we have had greater partnership between the Government and Maori, and race relations have improved. Greater justice for Maori has not harmed you or your pocket at all.

Crazyhorse, unelected council members control nothing

Posted on 06-09-2017 07:23 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you are confused. Unelected council members are not a majority on councils. They control nothing.

It's election year Rocco

Posted on 05-09-2017 18:58 | By crazyhorse

So I will keep trying to get the truth out so we don't let our children down, the way it's going we will be "slaves" in another 20 years!.

Maori do not control anything?

Posted on 05-09-2017 18:23 | By crazyhorse

According to Dey Maori do not control any of the Government, police, education, social welfare, military, housing, or local government. they have their own education system is that not control, as well as wanting to have a say in how "our" children are taught, as Dey says we are 2 peoples, and local gov't, look at whats happening around the country with out taking into consideration of the general population we are having unelected maori foisted on local councils,Rotorua ring any Bells? anyone heard of Andrew Judd, how about Auckland Council may be an unelected maori or 3 there groups are fighting for our democracy around NZ the democracy action group has had a big win in Auckland and working on other race based give aways, Dey under estimates people power, we are not racist, we are fighting for "equality"!. time for a change

There is just no end to the B/S

Posted on 05-09-2017 18:12 | By ROCCO

Well there you go @crazyhorse one of the galahs just provided the confirmation on what I told youwas the case so no more be said. QED

Control of resources by Maori is trivial.

Posted on 05-09-2017 18:05 | By crazyhorse

Hello, anybody out there? Dey is venturing further and further into never never land, what maori want and what they are getting is not trivial, how dumb do you think we are, where do you want to start, the RMA that's a good start even Flavell said they were blown away with that, maybe the systematic brainwashing in the education system, maybe the Natouri govt's favourite, co-governance?, or should we talk about "our"water and how much are we going to pay iwi to drink it?, na, lets talk about the giveaway of "our" beaches, ahh, that's a cracker, the entire NZ coastline thanks Natouri, thanks Whinlayson, does anyone take Dey seriously? he's an amusing character but where does he want NZ to end up, what is is "agenda"?, a pet pakeha to spoon feed every ""part"" maori for the rest of their lives, ####.

C'mon rocco, you know what this is all about.

Posted on 05-09-2017 16:56 | By R. Bell

Crazyhorse NEEDS a forum to spout his vitriol, he thinks he can do it un apposed. Your welcome to try, anytime you like. As long as you stick to the truth, no problem. Insults don't crack it, Pete and I have very thick skin, that's what sticking to the truth does for us. Warm and fuzzy, great feeling, you should try it sometime. Robin Bell.

ROCCO, Maori do not threaten you or your pocket

Posted on 05-09-2017 16:54 | By Peter Dey

ROCCO you need not be concerned. The Government and Maori are on a partnership journey of two peoples, flourishing Maori culture, and continually improving race relations. Nothing that is being done threatens you or your pocket. Nowhere in the world do different cultures want to merge into one. Those who want to have one people, one culture here are deluded, and in a small minority.

ROCCO, some facts for you

Posted on 05-09-2017 16:40 | By Peter Dey

The cost of spending on things Maori is insignificant. Less than 1% of the $75 billion that the Government spends every year goes to Maori. Maori do not control any of the Government, police, education, social welfare, military, housing, or local government. The Treaty of Waitangi has been made law by Parliament. They are supreme, and they have decided to have a partnership relationship with Maori. That is in law decided by Parliament. It makes us two peoples by law.

Fawners and Applepolishers Inc.

Posted on 05-09-2017 16:29 | By ROCCO

@Crazyhorse I don't know why you bother with these couple of idiot magnets.We all know their pedigree and complete lack of factual knowledge on the subject so just let them wallow in their self pity and navel gazing. Satisfy yourself in the belief you are completely right and they are inevitably always wrong. LOL at these dropkicks.

Crazyhorse, spending on Maori and control by Maori are insignificant

Posted on 05-09-2017 15:36 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you object to spending on Maori and Maori getting ownership returned as though these things are an enormous burden to the country. In both spending on Maori and control of Government and resources by Maori is trivial. Since they are so small a burden on the country you have no apparent reason to complain. You must have an undeclared agenda that you are not telling us about.

Crazyhorse,Treaty claims may never end and race relations will improve

Posted on 05-09-2017 10:24 | By Peter Dey

Treaty claims may never end. So what! They take about 0.1% of Government spending every year. All Parliaments since 1975 have supported the Treaty. It legally binds the Government, and it grants Maori fisheries rights. Chris Finlayson is just carrying out the will of Parliament. People who don't like that have tried to change the Government. They have failed and still fail because it seems that the majority of New Zealanders enjoy good race relations and being two peoples.

ngae tahu's

Posted on 04-09-2017 16:29 | By crazyhorse

National's highly controversial 2011 Marine and Coastal Area (MACA) Act, that allows Maori tribal privatisation of the foreshore and seabed, through gaining Customary Marine Title (CMT) over these priceless resources is the brainchild of pro-Maori Treaty Claims Minister and Ngae Tahu negotiator Christopher Finlayson.Over forty highly optimistic and large claims have been lodged by tribal groups, generally in areas with highly productive fisheries e.g. along the eastern coasts of the North Island from Wairarapa to Cape Reinga."Comrade" Finlayson is also the Attorney General, whose role it is to uphold the public interest. Yet he is assaulting the public interest, and public resources, by driving these highly questionable claims for his mates in the tribal elite. This is another example of conflict of interest by this deeply conflicted Minister,http://www.nzcpr.com/nationals-tribal-privatisation-assault-on-nzs-best-fishing-coasts-looms/

Treaty claims will never end

Posted on 04-09-2017 16:22 | By crazyhorse

Treaty claims will never end. For one reason or another past settlement of claims werent good enough. It might just be because we want more now, and, were breaking our word, but that doesnt matter because weve got the Treaty, and it says we can do anything. If we want more and more then were entitled to have it and were going to have it, and theres going to be trouble if we dont. Nothing else is justice. And even if at some future time we do decide we wont make another claim, thats not the end of the story, because then the Crown and Maori just move on into a new phase in their relationship."contemporary claims" You are never going to escape us, and, our desires are insatiable. Land, wealth, power, the works.

Crazyhorse, where were you between 1960 and 1985?

Posted on 04-09-2017 14:26 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, there was a great deal of racial disharmony in New Zealand between 1960 and 1985, which led us to wanting better race relations. The Treaty of Waitangi Act was passed, the Waitangi Tribunal was set up, and we began Treaty claims and settlements which Parliament has approved. The aim was to improve race relations by admitting to past Government injustice against Maori , and trying to prevent it in the future. You seem to want to return to the days of racial disharmony.

Crazyhorse, Government actions create Tribunal cases

Posted on 04-09-2017 12:53 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you believe that Tribunal claims will be a flood forever. However remember that Tribunal claims occur only when the Government is unfair toward Maori. Maori can only make a claim in response to Government action. That means that your belief that claims will be a flood forever is based on the false assumption that Maori can claim for anything at all. There can be no flood of claims or "grievance industry". The Government is just not that clueless anymore.

How low can you go?

Posted on 04-09-2017 11:06 | By R. Bell

The current attempt by crazyhorse and missy, to influence the coming election is laughable. Distortions are one thing, blatant untruth is undemocratic nonsense, born out by the pathetic non performance of the extreme right in every election ******* ever. Robin Bell.

Crazyhorse, Parliament has supported the Treaty and Tribunal since 1975

Posted on 04-09-2017 09:39 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you abuse present politicians like Chris Finlayson for supporting the Treaty and Treaty settlements, but his position is the same as the hundreds of other politicians in Parliament since 1975 who have supported the Treaty and the Tribunal. Your evidence against them is too weak to be convincing. You think you are the only one in step and they are all out of step. It is a delusion.

Crazyhorse, your inconvenient truth is not true

Posted on 04-09-2017 09:28 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, your claim that the Treaty of Waitangi is not enforceable in law is not true. The Treaty of Waitangi Act is an "Act to provide for the observance, and confirmation, of the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi ". The term "principles of the Treaty" is used to cover the two Treaties, English and Maori, that are in Schedule 1 of the Act. The principles of the Treaty have already been enforced in law. The Act binds the Crown to observe (legally comply with, honour) these principles.

Crazyhorse, contemporary claims do not add up to millions.

Posted on 03-09-2017 20:29 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, there is no 'grievance industry'. Contemporary claims are either justified complaints against the Government or they are claims that are nothing like the land Treaty settlements in size. You are making a fuss about nothing. You have produced nothing credible to back up your 'grievance industry' claim. you are nine years out of date. Your predictions are a fantasy. Nobody has claimed for the wind. Your feeding frenzy of claims is all in your imagination.

Crazyhorse, Parliament proves the Tribunal is not corrupt

Posted on 03-09-2017 20:21 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, Parliament approves Tribunal decisions, so they are not corrupt. The isolated examples that you quote are highly inaccurate and exaggerated, and isolated examples prove nothing. One member of Parliament committing a crime does not make Parliament corrupt. One researcher doing wrong does not make the Tribunal corrupt. Eddie Durie did not say all researchers are falsifying evidence.

@ The Crazy steed

Posted on 03-09-2017 20:10 | By MISS ADVENTURE

Not so crazy, on the money mate. On the Guns and Honi, spot on there to. Robby is at it again, creating history as go, always will have the odd flaw starting with being in the myth, legand category.

Contemporary Claims,

Posted on 03-09-2017 15:59 | By R. Bell

exist because contemporary injustice exists. Indiscriminate use of water, leading to pollution and water source loss. Maori have the treaty bound right to protect their environment against exploitation. Pakeha have the same rights, through different channels. All cost money. Robin Bell.

Thanks crazyhorse, you confirm my thoughts.

Posted on 03-09-2017 15:40 | By R. Bell

At the time Hongi Hika bought arms Australia was British. No matter who sold the muskets, it was irresponsible, selling such weaponry to the then primitive people of N.Z was a crime, soon to be pounced on by the authorities. That was why Hika could get no satisfaction in England. Killing was the way of life for both The British and Maori alike. The average British citizen of course had the luxury of letting the professional forces do the job, Maori had no such luxury. Robin Bell.

Another history lesson from Robby.

Posted on 03-09-2017 13:45 | By crazyhorse

So now Robby "claims" maori wouldn't have killed each without muskets supplied by Pakeha in a totally irresponsible way, I read that maori traveled to England, Hongi Heka wasn't it, they wouldn't sell him muskets so he did a deal with the Aussies on the way back,tell you what Bell maybe the Australians are to blame, eh maybe another "trough" opens up across the ditch?,yeah, nah, they aren't as gullible as K1W1's,

Squeaky yes, clean no,

Posted on 03-09-2017 12:04 | By R. Bell

your dead right there crazyhorse. Problem is, you attribute " dirty" tactics to Maori only. Dr Johnsons revelations are completely slanted. His assertion that inter tribal warfare contributed to the decline is partly true, Its also true that could not have occurred without muskets supplied by Pakeha in a totally irresponsible way. Many other factors contributed, including massive immigration (see current difficulties caused by the same) Land loss, colonisation impact, social disruption, you name it. Balance is required, and balance we have, like it or lump it. Robin Bell.

Hey Pete, what about contemporary claims?

Posted on 03-09-2017 11:10 | By crazyhorse

There have been over 200 contemporary claims filed with the Waitangi Tribunal. Ngapuhi claimants even talking about lodging a claim for the commercial use of wind.Customary rights to water is another example, but there are many more. Some have failed; others have succeeded, like the water claim. But all of these claims concern the actions of successive governments since 1992 showing that the treaty troughers will always have a fresh trough to feed from, the treaty claims so far will never match what is to come, contemporary claims, the wind, water, airwaves, even talking about so called social injustices, smoking, overweight, can't get a job, it's your fella's fault. Each successive Gov't has ensured the door is opened just a few inches more, and when it is ripped open completely we will see a feeding frenzy that will awaken even the most lethargic KIWI!!,

Patently absurd claims, like Tainui’s for Auckland,”

Posted on 03-09-2017 10:21 | By crazyhorse

Under "honest' Billy's National government the TOW has become the most abused "historical document" in the world considering that it's not even a legal binding document, how many people know that?, our founding document "bull ####!It's a wonder the GUINNESS book of records people haven't turned up for the most lies told by 1 Gov't..When will it end?, "never", unless we get a government that actually governs for all New Zealanders, not just the "select" few. What sort of NZ will our children inherit because of politicians like Key and his"cohort" the Ngai Tahu mole Finlayson?.Winston Peters hit the nail on the head when he said these claims set iwi against iwi and iwi against the rest of New Zealand. National has indulged Mori separatism and is now attracting absurd claims like wanting to "own" our water, and Tainuis , we wants Auckland,

Tribunal is corrupt?

Posted on 03-09-2017 10:15 | By crazyhorse

Dey talks about my fantasies about the Waitangi tribunal being corrupt as in using falsified information, history, "Honest" Eddie Durie one time head honcho of the "race" based tribunal admitted in a paper he published on "ethics" of all things that information used to settle claims was sometimes dodgy and researchers were asked to change "facts", "Honest" Eddy himself resigned from the tribunal under a cloud but "Honest" Dougy Graham reinstated him and we all know about "honest Dougy!, basic rules of a National or Labour government when confronted with allegations against Maori are, never look into anything you don't have to, never set up an inquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be, or, unless someone is actually caught red handed with their hand in the "till" Natouri and Labouri prefer to just leave them to it, it's only K1W1 tax payers money

Crazyhorse, your

Posted on 03-09-2017 09:38 | By Peter Dey

The idea that because lawyers and iwi have earned millions of dollars from Treaty land claims that they will keep on making claims is fantasy. The Treaty of Waitangi Amendment Act 2006 put an end date of September 2008 for historical Treaty claims. That was nine years ago. Crazyhorse you should stop talking about a "grievance industry". There has been no possible "grievance industry" since 2008. After nine years, Crazyhorse, you should let your fantasy go.

Crazyhorse, Giselle Byrnes does not say the Tribunal is corrupt

Posted on 03-09-2017 09:23 | By Peter Dey

Giselle Byrnes is a pre-eminently respected academic historian. Her concern about the Tribunal is that it puts too much of a modern view on its historical research. However she does not accuse the Tribunal of corruption. She simply says that its research findings do not have the rigour of academic writing. It is a reconciliation Tribunal seeking to resolve disputes into an acceptable basis for compensatory action.

Crazyhorse, Dr Robinson's claims prove nothing

Posted on 03-09-2017 09:11 | By Peter Dey

We have never heard the other side of Dr Robinson's claims about his Waitangi Tribunal research. His claim that he was asked to falsify evidence in order to be paid is only his version of events. Quite possibly he got into an ideological debate and wanted to insist on how his research should be used, and ended up being totally stubborn and unreasonable. Either way one person's bad experience does not prove that the Tribunal is corrupt.

Crazyhorse, the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 is binding law

Posted on 03-09-2017 09:02 | By Peter Dey

The Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 requires the Government to observe the principles of the Treaty. These principles have been stated specifically by the Court of Appeal which makes them legally enforceable as of now. The term Treaty principles is used to mean the two versions of the Treaty combined. By law the government must observe these. By law since 1975 the government must observe the Treaty of Waitangi. Crazyhorse you are in denial of facts.

Squeaky yeah, clean, no way.

Posted on 02-09-2017 08:36 | By crazyhorse

A book by Dr John Robinson, The Corruption of New Zealand Democracy puts to right his astonishing revelation that as a Waitangi Tribunal researcher he had to falsify evidence to get paid. Hired to study Maori depopulation from 1850-1900, he found the main cause was a chronic shortage of potential parents. The inter-tribal holocaust of the 1820s and 1830s had extinguished up to forty percent of the race, and it was ""customary practice to kill newborn girls"". This was not what Dr Robinson's state masters wanted to hear. They encouraged' him to blame the decline on the catastrophic' effects of Maori land loss. And so, against all the evidence, he did. He exposes the corruption within the Waitangi Tribunal to write reports to allow claims to proceed. Victoria University historian Dr Giselle Byrnes also lays damning charges against the tribunal, backing up Robinson!.

Petes New Zealand

Posted on 02-09-2017 08:30 | By crazyhorse

We have a "grievance industry" not to be mistaken for a "grievance process". Once you get your head around that it makes it all a lot easier to understand, to iwi its big business. Lets look at this "not" from an angry tax payer, but from the business side of things, the government say claims are nearing an end, remember we are talking business, would you walk away from a business that earned you millions of dollars a year and it was completely paid for by the NZ tax payer, do you think treaty troughing lawyers are going to let that happen. "Think about this real carefully" TROUGHING GO'S ON FOR EVER, THINK LABOUR OR "honest" Billy WILL STOP IT??????????????????.Yeah?, na!,

Move on you're sad.

Posted on 01-09-2017 20:28 | By crazyhorse

Why do white K1W1's today take the blame for what their ancestors did?.Why do a people with a small amount of maori blood hold K1W1"s responsible for all their problems, whether they be real or imagined Why do we have to live with the guilt of being remotely racist or in constant censorship of ourselves while maori and their "Klingons" behave any way they want?There seems to be an assumption that "we" must live in guilt for what others before our time have done.personally, I don't hold today's generations in any country guilty of the crimes of their ancestors.

INCONVENIENT TRUTH

Posted on 01-09-2017 20:21 | By crazyhorse

The Treatys legal status can change in the future but at the moment the Treaty itself is not a legally enforceable document (unlike a piece of legislation for example). Thats because it is currently accepted by the Supreme Court that sovereignty (or the right to make binding laws in New Zealand) lies with Parliament only. Only laws passed by Parliament are legally enforceable and the present view is that the Treaty pre-dated the transfer of sovereignty to Parliament. That means the Treaty itself is unlikely to be legally enforceable in any New Zealand court at the present time.Whether Dey and his separatists like it or not references to the Treaty and the Treaty principles can be removed from legislation at any time, depending on the will of Parliament.

One people ?

Posted on 01-09-2017 16:06 | By R. Bell

We have never been one people. We can never be one people. Anyone who believes we can, dismisses the rights of our founding partners, both Maori and Pakeha. Under what mandate does crazyhorse, Don Brash and company operate? None. We operate as one nation, because our evolution has taught us that compromise and goodwill is preferable to constant conflict. Labour, National, the Greens, The Maori Party, represent over 90% of ALL N.Zers. Crazyhorse and others should accept defeat and bow to the will of the people, or is there too much money in it? Robin Bell.

Crazyhorse, produce genuine evidence of a Treaty 'gravy train'

Posted on 01-09-2017 16:05 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you claim that there is a Treaty 'gravy train' and that Maori are 'Treaty troughing'. It is time for you to back up these claims with some genuine evidence or stop using these terms. At present you seem to be using them simply as unjustified abuse.

Crazyhorse, repeating factually incorrect information damages credibility

Posted on 01-09-2017 15:51 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, most of your comments are pure subjective opinion, but your comments about the Treaty are factually wrong. You need to check your facts when you claim to be stating facts.

Crazyhorse, your abuse toward Maori is excessive

Posted on 01-09-2017 14:48 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you belittle Maori by suggesting that they will charge excessively for natural assets that they gain ownership rights to. As a nation we already charge visitors who visit our national parks, and use park resources. Maori have been very generous with allowing access to resources that they own. The present Takutai Moana Act allows total public access to Maori foreshore. Maori culture has much greater regard for the natural environment than Pakeha culture.

Crazyhorse, Treating troughing is a fiction

Posted on 01-09-2017 14:38 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you are resentful about what you call "Treaty troughing" but you are not objective with your figures. Lawyers are costly whatever they do. The fact that Treaty lawyers are costly is because they are lawyers not because they are working on Treaty claims. You are unable to show that any Treaty claim is a fraud. You claim there is fraud but your lack of genuine evidence shows that you are just mouthing. The term "Treaty troughing" is simply abusive fiction.

Crazyhorse, National and Labour in Parliament is democracy

Posted on 01-09-2017 14:20 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you object to the laws that National and Labour have made in Parliament, but that is our democracy. They still represent the views of the majority overall. It is not a jack up or conspiracy. Maori have not taken control of New Zealand. Present day taxpayers do benefit from the wealth taken from Maori in the past. Present day Maori have lost wealth that they should have inherited. It is not unfair for present day taxpayers to compensate Maori for what they lost.

Crazyhorse, some corrections for you about the Treaty

Posted on 01-09-2017 11:20 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, Parliament is supreme. The laws they make are the laws that apply. The Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 has put the Treaty of Waitangi into New Zealand law. The two versions of the Treaty are there in our laws for all to read. Parliament recognises the Treaty as our founding document. We do not have a written constitution but the Treaty since 1975 has been New Zealand law as written in the Principles of the Treaty. You may not like this but Parliament has done it and Parliament makes the law.

Power is okay, and stupidity is usually harmless.

Posted on 01-09-2017 10:58 | By crazyhorse

I have a deep and profound mistrust of all National, Labour, Green and maori party politicians Our leaders know were turning into a giant "marae" and they are taking every last K1W1 "taonga like "water" they can get their hands on, hoping the rest of us won't wake up and realize what they are doing.Power is okay, and stupidity is usually harmless. Power and stupidity together in a National or Labour government is dangerous!.Truth is hard, propaganda is cheap.Fascism thrives in obscurity and darkness,Accepting fraud from our leaders means accepting fraud in our personal lives, can you live with that?, I myself can't and won't', or at least will do my best to stop it.

Natouri's and Labouri's Gravy train needs derailing!.

Posted on 01-09-2017 10:37 | By crazyhorse

It should always be remembered that the Lange government advised by "HONEST "JEFF"PALMER started this crap when they extended the Waitangi Tribunal's jurisdiction back to 1840 Contemporary generations of Maori who've had nothing taken from them will continue demanding that free stuff is given to them. And my generation, who've NEVER taken ANYTHING from anybody, will continue to pay a generation who've NEVER had ANYTHING taken from them, This will never end, "treaty troughers" have too much to gain from perpetuating racial hatred to let it all slip away

Natouri, Labouri, Greenouri

Posted on 01-09-2017 10:34 | By crazyhorse

With every history "alteration", "revised" meaning of the treaty of waitangi or IWI press release, the claim will be repeated, using the basic principle of the Nazi propaganda machine, that a lie repeated often enough becomes the new truth, National and Labour have found, the best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed. Adolf Hitler

Here we have have Petes TOW campers.

Posted on 31-08-2017 18:38 | By crazyhorse

Or should I say his version of it, now Pete says the TOW provides for Maori rights to natural possessions, such as lands, forests, waterways, and fisheries? and these are """legal""" rights. Hence under National or Labouri pay to walk in a forest, you will pay iwi for your water and as far as fishing goes, "part" maori haven't decided about that, maybe under the next term of Natouri or Labouri?.

TREATY OF WAITANGI?

Posted on 31-08-2017 18:05 | By crazyhorse

What Pete and other apologists or treaty troughers can't get there heads around is (1 the TOW is not our founding document, there are people that say that but the truth is it is not, (2like it or not the TOW is not a legally binding document, (3 the TOW will never be made legal or written into a racist constitution for one simple reason, it has been so misused and abused, constantly rewritten that no one would be able to "come up" with a document that anyone would be happy with.

Not only, but also, Peter

Posted on 31-08-2017 16:35 | By R. Bell

We entertain lots of tourists, almost without exception they comment on our natural beauty followed by Maori and their position in our national life. To lose that point of difference would be more than astonishing, it would be tragic, and the repercussions for trade and tourism, horrendous. Robin Bell.

'One law for all' would have to repeal the Treaty of Waitangi Act

Posted on 31-08-2017 15:32 | By Peter Dey

Like it or lump it, politicians regard the Treaty of Waitangi as our founding document. It provides for special privileges or rights for Maori. Monocultural Pakeha who want to remove Maori privilege from our law would have to repeal the Treaty of Waitangi Act, removing our nation's founding document from our law. The international community would be astonished. Maori privileges have to be justified, but 'one law for all' is not the answer because it ignores the Treaty.

Equal rights for all is not as simple as it sounds

Posted on 31-08-2017 14:57 | By Peter Dey

The 'equal rights for all' campaign wants to remove all reference in law to Maori rights. At present the Treaty of Waitangi Act and the Principles of the Treaty are New Zealand law (since 1975). They provide for Maori rights to natural possessions, such as lands, forests, waterways, and fisheries. These are legal rights. It would be a major racist step backward for any government to repeal these rights. Few New Zealand politicians want to be seen to be racist on the international stage.

Crazyhorse, you ignore ten per cent compensation

Posted on 31-08-2017 14:39 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you have previously objected to special privileges for Maori, like educational scholarships. However you also ignore the fact that Treaty settlements pay out less than ten per cent compensation. This is probably a reason for Government goodwill toward Maori. Maori have never been fully compensated, and the loss to them far outweighs the cost of any current privileges. The 'One People' campaign needs to acknowledge this also if they want credibility.

Crazyhorse, you seem blind to our history.

Posted on 31-08-2017 10:52 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, your 'one people' ideas would take us back 50 years. That was when we had Maori players excluded from All Black teams to South Africa. We were boycotted at the Olympic Games in 1976 because we supported racist South Africa in rugby. We had riots when a racist South African rugby team toured here in 1981. We had Maori land protests at Bastion Point and Raglan that were found to be justified. You seem blind to our history. Were you not here at that time?

Crazyhorse, your separatism undermines inter-racial harmony

Posted on 31-08-2017 10:08 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, your separatist campaign to exclude Maori culture from mainstream society undermines inter-racial harmony. The National and Labour policy of integrating Maori culture into mainstream society is not separatist and is a policy of goodwill toward Maori that is designed to foster inter-racial harmony.

The 'One People' campaigners are the real separatists

Posted on 31-08-2017 09:38 | By Peter Dey

It is amazing that the 'One People' campaigners do not seem to realise that their policy is separatism. They want Maori culture to be kept separate from mainstream society. The National and Labour Governments have promoted integration of Maori culture into mainstream society. The Treaty of Waitangi Act recognises that the Government and Maori have a partnership that integrates Maori culture into our way of life, and does not side-line it as the "One People' want.

Crazyhorse, denying people their culture is divisive

Posted on 29-08-2017 19:34 | By crazyhorse

Whos denying maori their culture, maori culture is a part of NZ, but don't push it down K1W1's throats, maori can't be bothered to learn the maori language but separatists are talking about making it compulsory at school, no one is denying maori their culture , I find it amusing that maori want to take over control of everything they can get their hands on but they are unable to look after themselves, the majority of children murdered by ""whanau"" abuse are maori, now that is something that should be looked at, "part" maori will take everything but responsibility for themselves, thats up to us.

Race based obsession

Posted on 29-08-2017 18:42 | By crazyhorse

Racism, separatism, Peter Dey supports a New Zealand run along those lines, vote Natouri, Labouri, and Greenouri and you will reap what you sow, apartheid!.

Crazyhorse, denying people their culture is divisive

Posted on 29-08-2017 15:10 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse you say that a race based government is a divisive government. You seem to think that Maori are controlling the Government agenda. In fact the government is simply meeting Maori half way. The government is not dancing to any Maori tune. It is simply looking for ways to show goodwill toward Maori, and recognising Maori culture and past injustices . That is not race based government. Race based government would be Maori getting priority over everything.

Government goodwill toward Maori balances past injustices

Posted on 29-08-2017 10:35 | By Peter Dey

The 'one people' campaign wants us to ignore injustices of the past toward Maori. Governments want us to be two peoples acknowledging past injustices. That is why the Treaty of Waitangi and partnership with Maori has been put into law. Governments want to show goodwill toward Maori in order to recognise past injustices. The 'one people' campaigners want to remove Government goodwill toward Maori. That is pure selfishness from people who have not suffered injustice.

two people has been since 1840

Posted on 27-08-2017 19:00 | By ianbarbara@xtra.co.nz

The 1840 Royal Charter was the document that made NZ into a British Colony under one flag and one law. The Treaty was to ask tangata maori to give up the territories they still occupied to Great Britain to satisfy the Clapham Sect. NZ had already been made part of NSW by the Charter of 1839 under the laws of Nations and the Proclamations read by Lt Governor Hobson at waitangi on the 14th January 1840, one month before the first signature appeared on the Treaty

Crazyhorse, Parliament has made new laws

Posted on 27-08-2017 16:31 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, You ignore that fact that our Parliament has made new laws that make your claims out of date. Parliament is supreme. What they decide becomes law, regardless of what went before. Parliament has decided, in the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975, that the Treaty should be honoured, and that there is a Crown Maori partnership. That is our present law. It recognises that we are two peoples. The National Labour majority recognises this. You are on mission impossible.

But what about the partnership?

Posted on 27-08-2017 16:19 | By crazyhorse

But Pete you said the treaty made us partners, where in the treaty does it say that?, And also do you really think you will always have a Finlayson, Elias or Devoy at "your" service, you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time, sooner or later a treaty trougher will make one grab to often and people will wake up, a race based government is a divisive government.

Crazyhorse, marriage and the Treaty are partnerships

Posted on 27-08-2017 16:13 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you are writing legalistic nonsense. Anybody with common sense knows that an agreement between two parties is a partnership. The agreement does not have to mention the word partnership. A marriage is a partnership, no mention of partnership in the certificate is required. . The Treaty is a partnership, no mention of partnership in the Treaty is required.

Crazyhorse, we now honour one Treaty and two peoples

Posted on 27-08-2017 14:25 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, your legalistic arguments are all irrelevant. The Treaty was signed between two peoples who still exist. It cannot be cancelled. The Pakeha majority cannot cancel the Treaty, or remove the Maori people. Those who say that we should be one people want to remove Maori from society, an impossible fantasy. The National and Labour Parties support the Treaty and disagree with you because you do not make sense.

I suppose you believe in the tooth fairy as well?.

Posted on 27-08-2017 12:32 | By crazyhorse

Partnership? where in the treaty does it mention that maori and the other 85% of NZ are partners?, actually where in the treaty does it mention partnership at all, poor Pete, it's not what you want to be in the treaty it's what actually is in it, let's be honest maori and their "Klingons" see and read all sorts of fantasies into the poor old TOW but that doesn't actually mean they exist does it?, this is fairytale stuff just like the fantasy that maori did not give up sovereignty to the British Crown,

Guess what? enslavement of Moriori our fault!

Posted on 27-08-2017 08:52 | By crazyhorse

Natouri's Whinlayson has just paid out 18 million dollars of New Zealanders tax money for a claim that "we" didn't do enough to stop Ngati Mutunga and Ngati Tama enslaving Moriori, how bizarre! wouldn't you think Moriori would be suing these 2 iwi for the treatment dished out by them?.No, whinlayson even settled a claim by Ngati Mutunga that includes parts of the Chatham islands where they murdered ate and enslaved Moriori.Time for a change before 'we" are held responsible for everything maori did or are doing to each other, a vote for National, Labour or the Greens is a vote for maori or the maori party.

Peter Dey,

Posted on 27-08-2017 08:47 | By crazyhorse

How can we expect New Zealand to move forward peacefully and successfully with a racist divisive attitude like we hear from Pete, how on earth can you have a country where 14% of the population are treated completely different to everyone else, really think about it, a vote for National or Labour is a vote for a country run along the lines of a racist policies, already we are seeing the attitude of elite maori looking down their nose at the rest of us,I am not a cash cow, your problems are not mine!, and no, I'm not a second class citizen, are you?, under National Whinlayson we have just seen an 18 million dollar pay out for "us" not stopping Ngati Mutunga from enslaving Moriori, Whinlayson keeps it quite that they also gave the murderers of Moriori claim on the Chathams where all this happened,

Crazyhorse, National and Labour represent the majority

Posted on 26-08-2017 16:51 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, National and Labour believe that the Treaty should be honoured and have tried to do so since 1975. All of your legalistic ramblings give them no reason to change. They believe that the Treaty of Waitangi is our founding document. Your arguments against this are deeply flawed. The Treaty made us a partnership of two people. We can only be one people if Maori are sidelined from society. The only people who want that are monocultural Pakeha who are anti-Maori. No rational New Zealander wants us to be monocultural.

National, Labour, long passed their use-by date

Posted on 26-08-2017 07:51 | By crazyhorse

Before 1840 maori were living a stone-age existence, female infanticide, cannibalism, slavery.There is only one TOW!, not a dozen, to be used in different ways in different circumstances.Colonisation brought benefits and not disasterTreaty "partnership" and "principles" are pure fictionSo called Maori sovereignty is the enemy of democracy and equalityThe country's name is being changed by stealthIndoctrination is closing the nation's mindThe Maori seats in Parliament have long passed their use-by dateThe Waitangi Tribunal is causing such harm that it must be abolishedTreaty settlements enrich the pale-faced tribal elite without helping othersWe are losing our beaches to the tribal eliteWealthy and commercial tribes pay no taxLocal government is being tribalized by stealth

Our First Constitution and Founding Document.

Posted on 26-08-2017 07:29 | By crazyhorse

Our first Constitution and the document that founded New Zealand and its people was Queen Victorias Royal Charter dated the 16 November 1840. It allowed New Zealand to break away from New South Wales and with the consent of the British Parliament, form its own Colonial Government to make its own laws under the direction of the British Parliament based on English Law. The British Parliament supplied our next Constitution in 1846, which was amended and adopted by the New Zealand Colonial Government in 1852. Since then our Constitution has been amended and added to as we developed as a Nation,In 1947 the Government adopted the Statute of Westminster that granted New Zealand complete autonomy in foreign as well as domestic affairs with all the people of New Zealand becoming New Zealand Citizens under one flag and one law and all ""one"" people

Royal Charter Confirms Guarantees in the TOW

Posted on 26-08-2017 07:26 | By crazyhorse

Clause 8 of the Royal Charter , confirmed the guarantees made by Queen Victoria to tangata maori in the Tiriti o Waitangi, stating, Provided always, that nothing in these letters shall affect, or be construed to effect, the rights of any aboriginal native of the said Colony of New Zealand, to the actual occupation or enjoyment in their own persons, or in the persons of their descendants, of any lands in the said Colony now actually occupied or enjoyed by such natives. This confirmed, tangata maori would be given the same rights as the people of England to their land they now actually occupied, although most of the land the chiefs had travelled to Australia to sell was returned to them while the European purchasers lost their land and the monies/goods they had paid for it.

QUEEN VICTORIA’S ROYAL CHARTER 16 DECEMBER 1840

Posted on 26-08-2017 07:19 | By crazyhorse

QUEEN VICTORIAS ROYAL CHARTER16 DECEMBER 1840--Our First Constitution, With British sovereignty now firmly asserted by November 1840, Queen Victorias Royal Charter dated the 16 November 1840 separated New Zealand from New South Wales dependency and New Zealand became a British Colony. On the 3 May 1841 Governor Hobson was sworn in as the Colonys first Governor to form a government to make and enforce English Law over the whole country. Once Queen Victoria gave Her Royal Charter, the Tiriti o Waitangi had served it purpose; it was just one part in the process of New Zealand becoming British soil and tangata maori British Subjects under one flag and one law. No mention of the Tiriti is made in the Royal Charter.

Two people, has been since 1840

Posted on 25-08-2017 11:07 | By Peter Dey

Seems like R.Chamberlain, crazyhorse , and Don Brash are in a small minority if the majority of the National Party and the Labour Party believe that New Zealand should continue being two people and bicultural as agreed in 1840. The Treaty made us two people and cannot be undone. Those who want a one people monocultural New Zealand want to go back to ignoring the Treaty. The Treaty was ignored until about 1960. Remember Halt All Racist Tours and No Maoris No Tour and Howard Morrison "My Old Man's An All Black but he's out now for a while". Thank goodness the National Party and the Labour Party now want to honour the Treaty. It is our founding document. It should be honoured.

Jacinda another Hone

Posted on 18-08-2017 20:50 | By crazyhorse

A vote for Labour or National is a vote for maori or the maori party, both are the maori party just with a different spin.

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