Council: Route K paid off by 2040

Posted on 11-08-2012 11:25 | By TERMITE

How does that work? How do you pay off the debt like that?

Posted on 10-08-2012 12:43 | By TERMITE

I can not see how this kind of report can be believed, all the information available from Council shows that Route K is costing ratepayers $2.5m pa, that is the annual loss, that si money out overall, it is added to the debt each year so the problem is steadily and surely getting worse. For the debt to be paid off means that somehow the losses (10 year out of 10 years) are somehow going to disappear and do a complete 180 degree turn around? There is no reason to think that this will happen anytime soon. By "soon" I mean in the next 28 years ...

Posted on 09-08-2012 16:05 | By PLONKER

Shocker really, no onformation, no plan, it is clearly a pipe dream to try and keep everyone happy, happy meaning that they think nothing is wrong and everything is all "warm and fuzzy" happiness.

Posted on 05-08-2012 11:16 | By TERMITE

That is nothing more than an annual event of "seat warming" for a raft of officials doing a little dance for what purpose I am unsure, but the essence is that NZTA are likely turning up as a good will jesture and that is all, TCC are there so grovel in some weird form of dance of a spindoctoring nature to be able to ease themselves into the NZTA coffers. TCC haev been clearly and repeatedly told that "when viable" NZTA will take it over, so what is the point of meeting annually until that is so? Unless of course some nefarious scheme is afoot where TCC ratepayers will end up with a huge debt and no Route K, of course that would be better than now where the debt is mushrooming out of control now, so would that be an improvement?

Posted on 31-07-2012 14:52 | By PLONKER

That will mean about $20m at best as that is all the tolls revenue received could cover in debt, anymore than that means that the debt will incraese in mushroom fashion like the last 10 years to date.

Posted on 30-07-2012 13:38 | By waiknot

I am sure eventually NZTA will take the road of TCC and pay a fair price. But people must be dreaming if you think NZTA will take over the debt incured due to the road being built before it was viable.

Posted on 30-07-2012 09:49 | By wreck1080

Personally, I have no faith in whatever figures the TCC invents. TCC has made so many mistakes and errors, why should I suddenly start to trust them now? I’d guess the real issue is that the elected TCC councillors are of mediocre intelligence so we get mediocre or worse outcomes. So many things in this city get messed up , turn out disastrous, or cost way more than anticipated.

Posted on 29-07-2012 21:23 | By PLONKER

Just amazing that such a statement could even be made by Cr David Stewart, like I presume he believes it to be true? If not then he does nothing in response to what has been put under his nose!

Posted on 29-07-2012 15:58 | By KAMIKAZE

Only one way repayment of this obscene debt of $70m can take place by 2040 is if NZTA inherits and wipes off the debt.If you believe anything else spouted by Crosby, Stewart and Co you are away in La La land.

Posted on 29-07-2012 12:54 | By TERMITE

TCC staff have told good ol chap David Stewart that the "debt is to be repid by 2040" simple really. I am sure TCC staff will shuffle money around somehow from somewhere else then pretend that the "Route K" $73 million loan will have been repaid, but truth is it will just have been shifted elsewhere with a differnt lable on it.

Posted on 28-07-2012 16:35 | By TERMITE

Looking at all the comments here and of course all the facts and figures, there is not a single reason to think that any repayment will be made by 2040. Must be in fairy land on this one.

Posted on 25-07-2012 23:34 | By YOGI

This looks like a black hole, feels like a black hole, everyone not at COuncil seems to think it is a black hole so as they say ... it must be!

Posted on 25-07-2012 16:21 | By PLONKER

They would not even lend money on this as it looses money and so there is nothing to pay back the debt. Maybe there is some magic book keeping conjuring trick dreamed up at TCC that makes all of that all ok?

Posted on 23-07-2012 13:16 | By PLONKER

No way can the debt be paid off by 2040 from tolls alone. The real information is shown below and Cr David Stewart has failed to answer or provide any information about anything.

Posted on 22-07-2012 22:46 | By YOGI

So adding $5.4m loan repayments + overheads $700k + road repairs $300k, so that is about three times the cuurrent tiolls collected

Posted on 22-07-2012 16:52 | By PLONKER

If no more losses were added to the debt (like has been the case from the start and for 10 years now) then working out how much to pay off the debt in full in 28 years (by 2040) and with say 6% interest would mean that the $73 million loan (including this years losses) would mean annaula repaymetns of $5.4 million, that is about twice the amount of the current tolls collected before TCC overheads and road maintenance.

Posted on 21-07-2012 17:26 | By YOGI

The article makes it clear that the Deputy mayor has no idea of the truth of thie Route K situation at all, no idea of the consequences either. The losses are there and getting worse and that is even with reduced interest rates that are available now. It is indeed a worry for all ratepayers that this is the level of comprehension of something so simple.

Posted on 21-07-2012 16:56 | By PLONKER

Cr David Stewart remains silent, what a surprise indeed, I can not see that canging anytime soon. This is unacceptable from a Councilor that rash statements are made and no evidence to support what is said, just another example of the whiffle woffle from this quarter!

Posted on 19-07-2012 12:03 | By PLONKER

Looks like making statements like the above then going silent again are par for the course. No reply means you are wrong and have no basis for all of what is said and quoted above.

Posted on 18-07-2012 16:45 | By TERMITE

he does not like it when someone asks the obvoius question that could "possibly" result in having to answer a question. At least he would have to consult with the "master" who does all of his thinking for him first of course.

Posted on 18-07-2012 13:57 | By TERMITE

You ahev had plenty of time now, where and how is the massive loan of Route K to be paid off or is your silence merely confirming the obvious that you dont have any basis at all for your wyou have said here.

Posted on 16-07-2012 14:06 | By TERMITE

I can not see that the slipperiness is created by the rain alone today, there is a lot more to the "slipperiness" than that.

Posted on 16-07-2012 14:00 | By TERMITE

KAMIKAZE - I can not see how that is actually possible, the misfits are misfits becasue there is no management

Posted on 16-07-2012 08:44 | By TERMITE

I think that he should explain himself, perhaps put up the numbers here for all to see on how the debt is to be repaid by 2040, we all know it is a dream and some but would be nice to see how the ’TCC officials’ have created this story.

Posted on 15-07-2012 15:28 | By KAMIKAZE

A continuing financial mess being hidden by secret and confidential TCC meetings . Why shouldn’t the public and more particularly TCC Ratepayers know what is going on.No matter what slippery spin Mayor Crosby and Deputy Mayor David Stewart put on the cock up they will not come out of this smelling of roses .

Posted on 15-07-2012 10:53 | By PLONKER

Dont know how that works? Last years loss of $2.6m is a big loss to make, the addition of $10.9m of debt for the Pyes Pa bypass will add say $700,000 more in interest anyway, the inceease in tolls for cars will only at best cover that extra interest costs, so after that the loss will be the same. It does all get back to the volume of traffic on Route K, it needs to double just so as the loss is covered, to pay the $2.1m in annual loan repayments means that there has to be almost triple the cars on the road, that means 6,000/day needs to be 17,000/day or there abouts. When that is the case only then will it be able to pay off by 2040, more losses now will delay that a lot. If interest rates rise then the losses will be bigger and so will then debts.

Posted on 14-07-2012 17:41 | By TERMITE

For the last 10 years or so the losses of $1.8m to $3.0m a year have all been added to the debt. Even though the car toll has increased there still needs to be at least double the volume of traffic to get to a breakeven just to pay the interest. Cr David ’yes man’ Stewart would seem to be saying what he is told to rather than what is.

Posted on 13-07-2012 22:26 | By WOMBLE

How do you pay off your debt from a loss? Complete rubbish this, the past shows us that the losses are being added to the debt not deducted.

Posted on 13-07-2012 17:00 | By YOGI

Yes it is! not because they say it will be paid off by 2040, the fact that to say it is a failure before it starts. Read below mate, the money in from tolls is about $2.5m and the money out is around $5.5m now, by my maths that is about a $3m loss pa (no profit to be seen anywhere near this one as yet), how do you pay off a loan out of that? The trend to date has been to add these losses to the debt for the last 9-10 years that is why the debt has gone from $40m to $70m now. On what kind of creative bookkeeping can you add the losses to the debt and after 28 years or less have no debt?

Posted on 12-07-2012 20:48 | By Scambuster

No surplus for this bit of madness for many years yet and tolls will not even meet the interest bill.Little chance of a cash strapped NZTA taking debt off TCC hands either so where is the euphoria coming from to support the spindoctoring. ROUTE K IS DEFINITELY NOT A USER FRIENDLY ROAD with difficulties in accessing on to it and exiting off it and that will take 10’s of $ millions to fix.

Posted on 12-07-2012 18:10 | By PLONKER

Are you talking about 2040 - 2012 is 28 not 38 years!

Posted on 12-07-2012 18:09 | By PLONKER

So $70 million in debt to be paid off by 2040, that is 28 years away, that means $2.5 million a year on average? Well it looks like there is still a loss going on thre so how does that pay off the debt, perhaps they mean the debt will be another $70 million so double by 2040, that is more like the right direction of it but I can not see that as the debt has more than doubled already in only 9 years.

Posted on 12-07-2012 13:39 | By YOGI

No show bro! The costs in interest alone are not even paid by the tolls collected then add the road maintenance, wages and so on ... there is a massive loss here and unless the traffic volumes at least double there is no way there will be a profit so no way of paying the debt off. Looking at the TCC’s own website the history of Route K reports a debt of $43m, less initial contributions from NZTA left a $32m debt, that after 10 years is now $70.9m, interest at 6% is $4.2m on that, the tolls in 2011 were $2.1m (loss of $2.6m for the year add to debt) the tolls will increase on the cars only by say $700,000 or so, but with the increase in interest cost from the Pyes Pa debt added means any gains are more than out stripped by more interest cost. No wonder they wanted a secret meeting so as to avoid any of the truth seeping into the meeting. As for NZTA taking over the road, that is another 9.5 year pipe dream that ranks up there with the little wooden fella with the nose that grows .... nothing less!

Posted on 12-07-2012 13:29 | By Persephone

It’s 2012 this year, Hector, so that’s 28 years by my calculations. And using those same calculations, council will need to pay circa $2.13M per year, plus interest (guess around $3M for this year) to achieve zero balance by 2040. So, TCC is predicting Route K will net over $5M this year? I find it rather difficult to believe!

Posted on 12-07-2012 09:38 | By Phailed

Surely a road that is paid for by users (not ratepayers as a whole) and will be paid off by 2040 isn’t a failure. Sure it would give certainty if government took it off ratepayers hands, but it’s not all bleak like some of the perpetual moaners write.

Posted on 12-07-2012 05:57 | By Hector

I will pushing up daisies, so since using the Toll road costs me, upwards of $30.00 per week, which is cheap considering the time and angst, it costs me, if I choose to use Cameron Road, and the diabolical shambles of a uncontrolled pedestrian crossing in the middle of Greerton, can I get a loyalty card please, to add to my collection, and maybe get 1 trip out of 10 free, yeah right!!!!!

Posted on 11-07-2012 17:52 | By ROB PATERSON

Ridiculous to deal with this in TCC confidential what is TCC hiding.It is TCC Ratepayers money after all that has been squandered on this lemon. Assuming NZTA continue to refuse to take over Route K and the associated debt of $60m, then another more palatable option may be to reach an agreement with NZTA for it to assume liability for the annual interest payments of $3m+ with TCC retaining liability for the capital debt of $60m. NZTA would of course get all the future tolls revenue. NZTA would also need to enter into a binding agreement to take Route K debt within say 15 years. It’s a win, win situation as NZTA wouldn’t have to find the capital now and TCC gets rid of a huge annual interest bill so the debt itself stabilises. This deal will probably end up costing NZTA $1 million per annum and that’s small change for them. The other huge advantage for TCC ratepayers is that the debt remains on the books in the meantime as a TCC liability and so prevents TCC borrowing any more money to spend on other half-baked schemes, protecting ratepayers from Council ‘nice to have’ indulgences. This option should be realistic enough even for TCC to negotiate with NZTA as they probably have weekly meetings. If it all proves beyond the 550 TCC staff and “Councillors capability, there are plenty of private individuals out there who may be able to broker a deal and give a lead to Council on how it’s done, assuming of course there is some goodwill from NZTA to enter into meaningful discussions. Speak to Hon.Simon Bridges associate minister for Transport even though he doesn’t want to discuss it with his local NZ "constituents".