Alternative flag to fly in Tauranga

A giant version of the alternate New Zealand flag will be flying from Tauranga City Council's flagpole on the Elizabeth Street west roundabout in about a week's time.

It's going to take that long to make a one-off 3mx6m flag large enough to be flown from the flagpole, says Mayor Stuart Crosby.


Todd Muller wants the alternative flag flown on the Elizabeth Street/Takitmu Drive roundabout.

The opportunity to see a giant version of the alternate flag flying from the Elizabeth Street/Takitimu Drive flagpole is the result of a request from Bay of Plenty MP Todd Muller and the sponsorship of Peter Farmer, who is paying for it.

'We discussed it yesterday informally as a result of that request,” says Stuart. 'We have to check resource consent and also checked with the government agency that looks after national flag flying. We have an email from them to say it's okay to fly the proposed alternate flag.

'What we're proposing to do, is fly alternately both the current national flag and the alternate.

'We have to make it very clear we are not endorsing the new proposed flag. We propose to fly them both to generate interest and debate over the upcoming referendum.”

Peter Farmer was the instigator of the project to place the former Woolworths Cameron Road flagpole on the roundabout.

Because of the size, council has had to order a one-off specially constructed flag.

'We have checked that we can fly them alternately, it's independently funded and council is not taking a positon on any particular flag,” says Stuart.

'It's purely done to generate debate and interest in the upcoming referendum.”

The flag will begin flying as soon as it arrives, which is five to seven days away.

Council had both flags flying at Baycourt, but they were stolen on Waitangi Day, says Stuart.

'Someone cut the wires.”

Todd says it's critical the community has a chance to see the flag in full flight to assess which of the two flags it supports.

'The flagpole is an icon in our city and this referendum is a once in a generation event,” says Todd.

'That is why I have approached the council to consider whether the two flags could take turns being displayed on our flagpole. This will allow the community to see their options expressed in the most vibrant way – on our great flagpole.

'Flying the alternative design locally has been approved by the flag consideration panel and is endorsed by local civic leader Peter Farmer.

'I think the alternative flag is going to look fantastic flying up there,” says Todd, who says he is a strong advocate for change.

The other places in our community that are showcasing both flags are:

· 41a May St, Mt Maunganui

· 16 Moa Street, Mt Maunganui

· Sun Pacific Villas, 123 Muricata Avenue, Mt Maunganui

· Waimarie Street (just past Totara / Hewletts Rd), opposite Port of Tauranga, Mt Maunganui

· Hynds, 84-86 Newton Street, Tauranga

· Papamoa Beach Family Tavern, 20 Domain Road, Papamoa, Tauranga

· Tauranga City Council, 91 Willow St, Tauranga

· Tauranga Hire, 15th Avenue Road, Tauranga

· 12 Hazelnut Way, Bellevue, Tauranga

· 39 Vivian Drive, Omokoroa, Tauranga

· Tauranga Bridge Marina, Berth E03

80 comments

Why?

Posted on 18-02-2016 10:38 | By The Sage

This must be driven by John Keys and I see it as a very manipulative ploy to get more votes for it in the referendum, next month. He is determined to leave a legacy and I surely hope this backfires on him.


Should not be involved

Posted on 18-02-2016 10:45 | By Merlin

The council should not be involved in promoting John key's alternative flag folly.They are getting involved in National Party politics.


This flag

Posted on 18-02-2016 10:46 | By NZgirl

Is been forced upon us by John key


Awesome.

Posted on 18-02-2016 10:52 | By Gigilo

To see our new flag, flying one of these at home when it is official. And putting one at the bottom of every email I send.


TREASONOUS

Posted on 18-02-2016 11:46 | By Colleen Spiro

When I drive down Elizabeth Street West, I feel an enormous sense of pride seeing OUR FLAG flying. I am absolutely DISGUSTED at Council's decision to allow at the whim of people who wish to change the flag, to TAKE OUR COUNTRIES flag down and fly and UNOFFICIAL flag....If people have not made up their mind by now which flag they are going to vote for, then they probably are not going to vote anyway....I see this Act as Treasonous by our Council.


Two flags not one ..

Posted on 18-02-2016 11:47 | By Rusty Kane

If the alternative flag is to be flown in public. It should be flown beside the New Zealand National flag. So people can compare the two up against each other. Not alternatively. One one week and the other the next. There is only one Elizabeth Street/Takitimu Drive flagpole, and that's for New Zealand's national flag. If the alternative is to be flown, then there needs to be two flag poles not one. so the flags can be compared one against the other. Like appropriately others are around town and the country. Not separately or alternately.


new flag

Posted on 18-02-2016 11:49 | By tundra

Why are they making these new flags already as the public hasn't voted for a change yet!Who's paying for them as well?


Fly any flag.

Posted on 18-02-2016 12:06 | By dgk

I currently getting a big skull and crossbones flag printed up and expect to see it flying at Elizabeth St very soon.


Bad taste

Posted on 18-02-2016 12:15 | By penguin

The flying of the alternative flag on a council-owned flagpole with Todd Muller


seesee

Posted on 18-02-2016 12:22 | By SeeSee

All national mates I would think. The council should keep it's sticky beak out of it, ,but then, if you scratch my back then I will scratch yours


Rates

Posted on 18-02-2016 12:23 | By hostile

Well its not the NZ flag- so maybe the council will refund us our rates till they fly the NZ flag again? Treason and disrespect to all who served and fought for this Country.


Unstated cost..

Posted on 18-02-2016 12:34 | By Onc

So far I haven't seen a costing for changing all the NZ flags worldwide if there is a change. Change costs. This is just rich people playing with taxpayers' and rate payers' money. It's not altruistic - just egocentric.


Steven Joyce

Posted on 18-02-2016 12:40 | By The Sage

Contact Peter Jackson and get the flag with Steven Joyce and the dildo on it. Try flying that at the bottom of Elizabeth Street. At least people would get a smile out of it. Council should be staying out of this and not buying into Government's demands.They should at least be seen to be impartial. It is called a conflict of interest.


Democracy..by stealth

Posted on 18-02-2016 12:54 | By mlow

I hope..the wires get cut!..again! John Key..you egotistical nightmare


Egocentric

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:09 | By morepork

Onc put his/her finger right on it. It is very wrong in a democracy, where something is sub judice, to behave as if a certain result has already been decided. The PM has an agenda and is in a position to enforce it (if we let him). The people of NZ will decide what flag they want and until they do, attempts to force a certain choice on them are simply reflecting an ego, rather than a regard for the democratic process. If and when the PM's preference is endorsed by the nation, THAT is the time to fly the flag and get behind it. Not before.


Objectionable symbolism

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:10 | By CliveB

Black: fear, aggression, rebellion, piracy, grief, death, and above all, evil. The alternative flag will never represent me or my country.


Elizabeth street flagpole

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:23 | By Kenworthlogger

From an earlier artcal about the flagpole situated at Elizabeth street and i quote ". The New Zealand national flag is the only one permitted to fly on the pole." So how has this happened then when we were promised the above?


why nothing spent on keeping the flag campaign?

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:27 | By Captain Sensible

Todd Muller,why is all of it spent on one idea, while the alternative gets nothing? You must be very proud wsting our hard earned but then stolen tax money.


Whatever happens

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:34 | By Watchdog

the people of New Zealand will decide at the next vote. My concern is over the sheer cost of this whole process. Then we can get on with life and the good old flag will still remind us of our heritage.


flag

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:41 | By dumbkof2

you can take this discusting flag and shove it right up you know where. and yes it will fit


Freudian Slip.

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:46 | By cssr

A bit of a Freudian slip Colleen.Spiro. You said "to TAKE OUR COUNTRIES flag down", I'd like to know which countries you are thinking about, ours and that of our former colonial oppressors? My ancestors were Irish. Those that lived here and went to war, went to fight for New Zealand. I've never been to Britain, so what makes you think I want to live under a British flag. The new one can't be hoisted quick enough.


Fascism

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:49 | By Conzar

How do I get the console to fly the real flag of NZ, the USA Flag? It seems that the console is allowed to fly non official flags. Where do we get to vote on this? Oh that's right, this isn't a democracy, its fascism.


Hey...

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:50 | By Roarfish

Anyone still have any Roman Candles leftover...


Kiwi Pride

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:54 | By Kiwi Pride

Let's see the (maybe) NEW Flag fly,.. No you don't have to be a National supporter to want some changes in NZ but yes I would like to see a new flag for our country. Yes I have Kiwi Pride in our history, but would also like to see us create our own identity on the world stage moving forward. What a great opportunity for NZ to show the world at the Olympics who we are!!!! now this is my 'opinion'.


Independently by who

Posted on 18-02-2016 13:55 | By Merlin

The alternative flag is independently funded by a Mr Farmer. National Party connections?More information please and keep the council out of National politics.


Growing up at last

Posted on 18-02-2016 14:00 | By betelgeuse

I like the idea of a change.I want the opportunity to view it in a prominent setting.Takitimu Drive is perfect.Seems a few people are really steamed up with the anti change brigade but I think they are really afraid that it just might change.ThanK goodness that John Key has the vision and the courage to recognise that change is essential.We need our own identitiy and not be just another clone .Most Commonwealth countries have over time grown up and have ditched the Union Jack and chosen something better that relates to their country.Try going to England and going down the customs alien queue and see how you feel.Im a young person and having all the crusties being so stick in the mud does upset.Yourve had your time its now ours.Good on Key for making people think


Todd Not Your Patch

Posted on 18-02-2016 14:01 | By tabatha

Todd the roundabout is not your electorate so you should but out. I think more people may have shown an interest if the debt was not as high.Check the following out from Treasury< http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand This shows how our debt is growing and they are spending $26 million on a flag proposal and then the debt grows again afterwards. Who pays for this, we do. If we were in the debt the Government was in the Bank would have us out on the street asking for a Housing Corp House, that are being sold. What a disaster our country is in at the moment. The sooner someone gets at the Government to listen the better. I am sure that Todd is brainwashed by figures.


Stop the grizzling !!

Posted on 18-02-2016 14:13 | By StevieB

Instead of using time & energy by debating the process, 'how' we were advised, or by whom, perhaps we should instead, consider the RELEVANCE of the current NZ flag v the relevance of the proposed new one. Yes, looking BACKWARDS, our link to England's systems is historical. But as we no longer have any formal tie(s) to their systems, we are essentially stand-alone already. WW1 & WW2 graves feature headstones with the silver fern. So if NZ wants to move ahead and look FORWARD as a multi-cultural land of New Zealanders as one people, perhaps the Silver Fern, with Southern Cross on a blue & black background is appropriate. Just consider the issue of relevance, rather than focussing on whose idea it was. It is simply time for a change to reflect who we are moving into the future rather than continuing to look backwards. MAKE YOUR VOTE COUNT.


Lots of negativity

Posted on 18-02-2016 14:26 | By Rinkles

Wow what a great debate .. plenty of negativity but none the less people sharing and airing their views. Personally I like the proposed flag and would enjoy seeing it flying so that i can completely make up my mind. I do hope that all those that have so much to say against the proposed flag take the time to vote when the time arrives.


johnkey flag

Posted on 18-02-2016 14:42 | By peter pan

Nothing annoys me more than someone trying to ram their opinion down my throat and this flag issue is one.What is it going to prove if the change does happen except to make johnkey happy and cost the taxpayers millions though he has been good at spending someone else`s money.The arguements it has caused and neer punch ups ,which have broken up long friendships leave a lot to be desired something i will never forgive that man for no matter how the vote goes,the damage has been done.


Hypocrisy at its best / worst ! !

Posted on 18-02-2016 14:55 | By StevieB

To those folk who complain about the cost of the referendum, but contributed to the cost by voting in the first round, and invalidating the process by adding their own comments /boxes as a protest, you incurred 10% of the cost by participating, but you destroyed your democratic right to vote, & then you complain about the cost / process. Retain your democratic right to vote by actually voting properly ! NZ is one of the few 'Commonwealth' countries not to have changed their flag. Perhaps it is time to have our own identity to reflect the modern NZ that we all want & desire to see. Change for the good, the future and let it be on 'our watch'. This should not be a political agenda as many have made it out to be. It makes sense compared to ongoing treaty claims and racially divisive activities. UNITE NZ!!


Flag Change

Posted on 18-02-2016 15:33 | By Summerfreeze

If we were to have two referendums, the first one should have been "Do you want to change the flag - yes or no" not "which of these do you want instead of the present flag". If the answer to the first referendum was "no", end of story and less expense.


Kenworthlogger

Posted on 18-02-2016 15:39 | By penguin

Re your question - I suspect the 'powers that be' used the same dubious principles that allowed an additional flag into the first referendum after selection closed! And guess who allowed that? Yep...


Why Not?

Posted on 18-02-2016 15:46 | By Sue

I really like the new flag - it will be a chance to see what it looks like flying. Can't wait for the change


FLAG

Posted on 18-02-2016 15:50 | By [email protected]

Total propaganda - council should not be involved nor sports icons.


Penguin

Posted on 18-02-2016 15:58 | By Kenworthlogger

Yeh totally agree with you mate. Most people here have totally missed the point. We were promised this would never happen and here we are.....


Bring It On

Posted on 18-02-2016 16:02 | By Gee9000

Bring on the referendum, I'm voting to change the Flag !!!


Undemocratic

Posted on 18-02-2016 16:22 | By Jitter

This indicates how far Key is prepared to go being so devious and underhand to get his own way. This "flag" should not be flown anywhere until it is voted as the NZ national flag. It certainly should not be flown on the Elizabeth St roundabout flagpole as it was categorically stated when this was erected that, only the NZ national flag can be flown there, as has already been stated. John Key may end up cutting his and Nationals' throats with his dishonest methods. This is not democracy at work but the start of a dictatorship.


not consistent

Posted on 18-02-2016 16:56 | By Captain Sensible

JK says the flag is old and outdated and we have moved on, so why then does he not do away with the maori greeting to every foreign dignitary from Oprah to royalty when they arrive in NZ because that is not only outdated but embarrassing.


Penquin & Kenworthlogger

Posted on 18-02-2016 17:01 | By Taffy

Totally agree with your comments. I sincerely hope the majority of the remainder of people commenting are as quick to vote 1. in the flag referendum & 2 In the council elections later this year.PS Where is Simon Bridges on this the flagpole is in his electorate.


flag

Posted on 18-02-2016 17:07 | By mlangdon

Just another attempt on the part of National and Key to push their own agenda,were we asked if we want to change the flag...NO, that should have been the first question asked.LEAVE OUR FLAG ALONE!!!


@Jitter

Posted on 18-02-2016 17:28 | By tabatha

It is not the start of a Dictatorship but the continuing saga of one. We do not and have not had a Prime Minister for quite a while but we have had a CEO who tells his workers (MP's) what to do or else.


New Flag

Posted on 18-02-2016 17:44 | By Denise Carroll

We Can't wait to have the new flag. I will be voting for it, not a John Key supporter so he wouldn't be forcing me to do anything. Know lots of other people who are happy to have a flag change. Don't see the relevance of the old one - wars weren't fought for flags, they were fought for our freedom to vote for things we want.


What a coincidence

Posted on 18-02-2016 17:51 | By MatuaMan

Some say there is no such thing as a coincidence, but just a day after Maggie Barry's meeting to drum up support for the new "footy flag". There it is - being promoted by a politician of the Key Party. Wow, what are the odds!!!??? Is that a whiff of panic I detect in the air? Yeah, Nah.


Email to Mayor and EM

Posted on 18-02-2016 18:19 | By Colleen Spiro

ALL EMAIL THEM I have contacted the Flag Consideration Panel, and they have informed me that if the opposition flag is to be flown by a local authority, it has to be flown ALONGSIDE our National Flag, NOT on alternate days, so if this is your intention, there needs to be TWO flagpoles on Takitimu Drive. I would also ask, if this was decided in a Minuted discussion in Chambers or another private meeting? If it was discussed at a formal meeting, I would like to know the vote count against and for. Myself and other rate-payers are taking this seriously, as it seems that it is clear that you are supporting Todd Mueller and Mr Farmer in their endeavours to sway the voting to change the flag. It is NOT the role of Council to support private people in their personal preference to change our flag.


IT IS NOT THE ROLE OF COUNCIL

Posted on 18-02-2016 18:22 | By Colleen Spiro

To help PRIVATE people and politicians support their own Agendas. DISGRACEFUL


flag

Posted on 18-02-2016 18:57 | By rosscoo

Should We not wait until the votes are in before the rate payer spends money on a new flag.


Change of flags..

Posted on 18-02-2016 19:51 | By Me again

.. nah, change of govt, change of TCC and of course top of the list change of Prima donna Minister. Who cares if the flag is changed, what needs to change is our govt.


Sounds like

Posted on 18-02-2016 20:22 | By Merlin

Sounds like this council is making decisions by a few at morning tea time.Come on Mr Crosby front up and give more detail on this informal discussion.And if Colleen Spiro is correct you can not fly it on a council flag pole on alternative days you need to have two flag poles to fly it alongside.The whole flag thing has just become a big farce and waste of money.P.S. Are you going to raise and lower the flag each day Mr Crosby.I hope it rains.


Disgraceful

Posted on 18-02-2016 20:26 | By mike harman

Looks like the dictator and his puppets are at it again trying to sway the people, there should be no lobbing on the flag it should be up to the final vote in march. Just goes to show how desperate JK is /by Mike Harman


@ccsr

Posted on 18-02-2016 21:20 | By Colleen Spiro

No Freudian slip CCSR.....They if they have their way they will be removing the official National flag (the one they want rid of). It STILL IS OUR NATIONAL FLAG, until it could be ousted. Quite frankly I don't give a damn about your pedigree. You live in NZ now and like or not the flag that is flying at Takitimu and all over the country is our OFFICIAL NATIONAL FLAG.


Good point Colleen

Posted on 18-02-2016 22:14 | By mlow

Flown alongside..yes. Flown on its own in alternate days..definitely not. But then, beloved Supreme Leader has already shown that the flag rules can be changed if it suits him. Red Peak included after selection process completed? So, whether we like it or not, look to see that trade-marked sporting emblem flying high next week. And no, it won't have this cynical old soldier's vote. Barry Low Bethlehem


what's the difference

Posted on 18-02-2016 22:33 | By Active

Was on a fishing trip with 7 Aussies and asked them the difference between our flags.only 2 new the difference.Know wonder sportspersons rep nz want a change.


Millions!!

Posted on 18-02-2016 23:06 | By betelgeuse

Just to put the money into some perspective. Crown expenditure for the 2014/15 financial year was.Social security and wefare $77 million per day,Health $41 million per day,Education $37 million per day.Multiply these Nos by 365 for annual spend.The flags cost is peanuts for democracies sake and lets us decide.For some other commonwealth countries The flag was decided for them and no one had any say. Count yourselves very very privliged


This was supposed....

Posted on 19-02-2016 08:57 | By Smilarkie

..... to be a vote. Either for or against the flag. John Key, Todd, and the mayor should all be ashamed. This is not our flag (yet) you should not be trying to use your positions to sway voters one way or the other. This is simply gone too far. The alternative flag is simply that....and until "NZ" (not a few ****) decide to vote it should not be flown at all. Have some pride in what is ours already.


@ betelgeuse

Posted on 19-02-2016 09:03 | By Captain Sensible

Nobody was that eager for a referendum except John Key. Why is $26 million spent on a different flag campaign but nothing spent on the current flags campaign to remain? Because John Key gets what John Key wants and to hell with the people who pay their taxes and to hell with democracy.


Why the fearful response?

Posted on 19-02-2016 09:11 | By Ron

Why are people terrified of helping voters make a fair and thoughtful decision on the flag? It seems current flag adherents are terrified that people might see the new flag and actually like it. There are many opportunities to see the old flag flying and very few to see what the new one looks like. In the interests of a thoughtful and informed vote I would have thought everyone would like to see the alternatives. The terrified response of the old flag brigade is illuminating.


@ Ron

Posted on 19-02-2016 11:04 | By Captain Sensible

Because the @26 million is spent on the new flag campaign and nothing spent on keeping the current flag. That's hardly fair is it? Not exactly a balanced way of spending OUR money.


@Ron

Posted on 19-02-2016 12:15 | By penguin

Whether or not the issue is an attempt to change the flag, the part that sticks in peoples' gut is the overt political meddling from the National party and some of John Key's 'mates.' Now, if there was a true balance in the project, the same resources would have been made available to 'promote' the current flag. Oh no - that would be too risky. There is no escaping the fact that Key is doing the 'hard sell' by breaking rules, using his lap dog members and resorting to prop-up promos with


Captain Sensible

Posted on 19-02-2016 13:13 | By Ron

A sensible view is to observe that for many years people have seen the old flag in its various images. Few people have seen the new one. Therefore to be "fair" the new one has to be given some prominance so that as many people as possible can see it. Because it looks so much better the status quo people are terrified of the new flag being seen and want to close the debate down.


@Ron

Posted on 19-02-2016 13:43 | By Woody

Whether or not the issue is an attempt to change the flag, the part that sticks in peoples' gut is the overt political meddling from the National party and some of John Key's 'mates.' Now, if there was a true balance in the project, the same resources would have been made available to 'promote' the current flag. Oh no - that would be too risky. There is no escaping the fact that Key is doing the 'hard sell' by breaking rules, using his lap dog members and resorting to prop-up promos with


Flagpole

Posted on 19-02-2016 14:02 | By mbm

So, the Council is going to order a new flagpole to accommodate Tod Muller And Peter Farmer desire to force their views on the rest of us! Who is going to meet the cost? I suppose it will be the overburdened ratepayer as per usual If this is the case, then the council is showing great bias. If Peter Farmer wants to supply a flag that cannot be flown on the normal pole the surely it is up to him (and his cohort Tod Muller) to pay for a new one?


@betelgeuse

Posted on 19-02-2016 16:48 | By Conzar

Did you vote to spend $26 million to promote a new flag? You mention democracy but there was ZERO democracy in the decision to spend $26 million on promoting a new flag. Was the public ever given the chance to vote if we wanted a new flag? Nope. The fascist USA Citizen John Key and his friends decided that NZ was going to have a new Flag to represent his hand over to USA and international corporations via the TPP.


@Conzar & Betelgeuse

Posted on 20-02-2016 12:40 | By morepork

Conzar: Sadly, there is much truth in what you say. Betelgeuse: More people actually voted for the red version with the fern than for the black version. Yet we are being pushed towards the PM's personal choice. He is already wearing it officially as a lapel pin and that is simply undemocratic. The whole process has been so badly mismanaged, I'll be voting to retain the current flag. Maybe in 15 years they can try again for change, IF THAT IS WHAT THE PUBLIC (rather than the PM) actually WANT.


The wesite page

Posted on 21-02-2016 09:02 | By astex

from the council re the flagpole states quite clearly that "The NZ Flag will be flown at the top of the flagpole at all times." End of story really isn't it?


It's currently only a 3/4 NZ flag

Posted on 21-02-2016 14:37 | By Amnesia Oasis

TREASONOUS ?..... How can you say it's OUR country's flag when one complete quarter of its area is occupied by the flag of a foreign country ??


jmac

Posted on 21-02-2016 14:51 | By JohnMac

The more it appears the worse it looks This is an amateur design and when you look at it it actually appears out of balance with black on top. The old may need changing but not to this excuse for design. If the govt had used common sense they would have contracted professionals to design according to a set requirement. Is maori represented in the new design NO and the crown has gone. Obvious plan here and I'm pakeha. This is not good and as a tory I am disgusted. One vote for Winstone coming up


Egotistic

Posted on 21-02-2016 21:37 | By LisaKelly

Why is anybody on council even considering flying this UNOFFICIAL flag, just to satisfy the whims of some National Party lackeys. This is an underhanded way of trying to promote John Keys monument to his own over-inflated ego.


MR K SMITH

Posted on 21-02-2016 22:28 | By k Smith

Changing the flag is long overdue, our current flag isn't NZ and all people who support the old flag must be whinging poms, we don't need the union jack which is not liked in many countries (I have traveled and know) this flag has nothing on it to identify NZ and most of the world thinks its Aust. We are identified by the black colour and the silver fern all over the world. The new flag is NZ so lets go for it. John Key has done the right thing by a referendum this is the democratic process cause he is the prime minister and its his job to do this. If you a worried about the 26 mil give us a break down of costs and your qualifications to prove your point. A new flag that is NZ is good for us so lets get the new flag.


There's panic out there ..!!

Posted on 21-02-2016 22:30 | By groutby

.that the flag proposition will not go ahead at the second referendum, and rightfully so. I see no reason at this moment in time for a need to change our National flag. When we become a republic in the future, and I can see that happening, then far more important issues will need to be dealt with, such as who will be our most useful trading partners, how will we conduct ourselves in an environment we will have created, how to dissolve the Treaty of Waitangi millstone and such things as this, will be far more important than changing the flag. This is really a discussion for another day (year)...I am really not sure if my support will be same for the incumbent government next November 17.


Smith

Posted on 22-02-2016 18:43 | By kb

I think the majority of kiwis have done there share of traveling and would agree that 90% of people didn't even know where NZ was let alone what the flag looked like, myself living in the USA went to a couple of nursery (plant)shops guess what I saw there for sale NZ pungas,Yes silver ferns ?? even better guess what they were called Australian Ferns ha. So Key leave our flag alone !! grandfathers and great grandfathers died wearing that flag defending this country , its about RESPECT ,a dying thing these days it seams.


jmac

Posted on 22-02-2016 22:31 | By JohnMac

Peter Williams endorses the new flag tho to be fair he looked like a dumbo waving it around like some immature kid. Richie supports it but then so what. It is not representative of NZ as a nation.


Cant display it?

Posted on 23-02-2016 15:33 | By Crash test dummies

it is not the NZ flag so isn't that illegal?


Leaf versus Kiwi

Posted on 25-02-2016 12:47 | By Papamoaner

K. Smith is one of those shallow thinkers who reckons a sports symbol is the most prominent. Does he/she not realise the Kiwi is displayed on all military and police uniforms and aircraft deployed overseas? Piggy Muldoon would have said "ya haven't done ya homework son" These people always cite a few war graves that accidentally got a fern leaf instead of a Kiwi, and that's all they've got. Put a Kiwi on the existing flag and you've got the most sensible design, known globally and widely respected.


@ Papamoaner

Posted on 26-02-2016 11:50 | By Crash test dummies

Agree, the kiwi is a far better symbol, has a better name, visually excellent and unique also.


This annoys me

Posted on 26-02-2016 16:09 | By Cydifor

The "new" flag on that pole is only going to annoy the hell out of most of us. We have already made up our minds and now just need those voting papers to tell the government how we really feel! Where are the papers? Will there be a neutral entity in place when the votes are counted to ensure that Honest John is truly honest and not The Smiling Assassin he used to be known as? I am still very suspicious as to what his motive is. What was being covered up while we were looking at this? The referendum may have cost $26 million but surely it will cost squillions more to change every item on which our current flag is pictured.


Recognition

Posted on 26-02-2016 17:48 | By penguin

Go overseas, tell people in many countries that you are from NZ and the comment is usually something like..."ahhh, KIWI!" Engenders that warm feeling. Wouldn't be the same if they said ..."ahh white fern people..." And I have worn the Kiwi with pride in the military and other environments.


OK, how about this?

Posted on 27-02-2016 23:27 | By groutby

Maybe, and just maybe, when it is decided that we become a republic, along with all the more significant decisions we need to make, we simply remove the "Union" flag from the existing flag and insert a proud "Kiwi" emblem. ....nothing else changes to the flag...yes?


And there it was...

Posted on 04-03-2016 16:54 | By penguin

Saw the "flag" flying from the big pole today. 1) It didn't really stand out with any quality, 2) it looked insipid, 3) it could have been celebrating any number of sports teams or products not aspects of our nation, 4) when you see it up there it looks all out of proportion as if was sewn together in a hurry using left-over bits of material. And the white fern looks hideously out of proportion! I guess the jolly Farmer and Muller have done us a favour by highlighting the flag


Flags, Flag, Flagged

Posted on 07-03-2016 16:54 | By R1Squid

I may as well wade in to this as well. The Union Jack with Southern Cross is the current and official flag of New Zealand and it replaced the old flag in 1902. There has never been an official 'Alternative' flag. The Teatowel is not an alternative flag, it is an option currently being voted on and if it wins the vote, will become the official flag of New Zealand. There will be no alternative flag.


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