Iwi claim treaty breach on Rena

Motiti iwi representatives are alleging the Government has breached the Treaty of Waitangi by making confidential agreements with the Rena owners and insurers.

Motiti Island hapu spokesman Buddy Mikaere made the allegations while commenting on a recent Treaty of Waitangi Tribunal hearing.

Motiti Island hapu spokesman Buddy Mikaere.

Motiti iwi Te Patuwai, also known as Ngai Te Hapu, attended a judicial hearing at the Waitangi Tribunal in Wellington last week, seeking a tribunal recommendation that the Government enforce the removal notice issued to the owners of the Rena in October 2011.

The container ship struck the Astrolabe Reef about 25km off the coast of Tauranga on October 5, 2011 spilling tonnes of oil that caused one of New Zealand's biggest environmental disasters.

'Why we lodged the claim initially was to try to get the Government to move on the removal notice that Maritime NZ issued to the owners back in November 2011,” says Buddy.

'That was the original intent of the claim. But in the course of preparing for the claim, we found out three confidential agreements signed between the Crown, the owners, and I believe the regional council.

'I'm not allowed to talk about the contents of those documents because we have had to sign a confidentiality agreement. But one of them we know some of the details about because it has leaked out from another source right back last year - alleging if the government helps the owners to be able to leave the wreck on the reef, they will then pay the government another $10million dollars.

'So how come you can sign a deal with a foreign company, but not actually talk with us about it? We've been left completely out of the loop. We're saying it's our reef, which we are willing to share with everybody else, but in the traditional way. So it's a clear Treaty breach, which is probably what the Tribunal is more interested in.”

The Tribunal can only make recommendations to the Government. But there is a section of the Resource Management Act, where when regional council, and government make decisions, they need to take into account the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, says Buddy.

'Clearly the Crown is in breach of that, and because they are a party to the agreement with the Crown, so are the owners.”

The issue will have to be discussed in the court case, says Buddy.

Also for discussion is the hapu appeal against the regional council downgrading the Astrolabe Reef's environmental status in the draft Coastal Management Plan.

The Environment Court says the issue is linked with the Rena owners and insurers application to leave the wreck on the reef, so they will be part of the same hearing.

Motiti Islanders are also applying to the New Zealand Historic Places Trust to have the reef declared a Waahi Tapu, or sacred site.

'The people on Motiti believe that rather than taking the northern route when you die, the spirit goes up to Spirits Bay and takes off back to Hawaiki from there – they go straight across the ocean using the reefs and islands. They call them stepping stones,” says Buddy.

Deputy BOP Regional Council CEO Eddie Grogan says the type of confidential agreement referred to by Buddy Mikaere is not compatible with the regional council role.

'The council's role is as the consented administering authority. Regardless of which way the consent goes, the council has to administer them. Whether that is a directive of the Environment Court, or a regional council hearing.

'So the council wouldn't engage in anything that compromised it in that role. In fact it would put us in a totally conflicted situation.”

The regional council would be very mindful of not signing up to any other deal that would compromise either of the positions that council would take, says Eddie.

Any such confidential deal will also have to be agreed to by the regional council itself, if it was to have any legal standing.

A $10.4million mitigation compensation offer was discussed in the media at the beginning of October. It related to the Rena owners and insurers investigating a package that might become part of an Environment Court settlement, should they succeed in obtaining consent to leave the remainder of the wreck on the reef.

Meanwhile the aft section of the container ship remains submerged on the slope of the reef, with the remnant of the bow section also reduced to lie beneath the water line.

163 comments

to be fair

Posted on 01-11-2013 08:38 | By ow

To be fair we only want the compensation money to look after our people. The 10 million to start with would help us a bit ! The councils could chip in some as well.


Take a dip into everything on the planet!

Posted on 01-11-2013 12:26 | By monty1212

Is there anything left of any value on the planet that iwi don't want a share of?


If it touches

Posted on 01-11-2013 15:24 | By Jimmy

NZ waters/soil it seems they want it, next they are going to want to garnish my wages for "rent" on the ground I walk on and the air I breathe.


What A Load Of Rubbish

Posted on 01-11-2013 15:47 | By Jitter

The people of Motiti have already been allotted $300,000 and now they want more. It is take, take, take all the time with these people. I agree with "Monty1212". It appears that everything in the world belongs to "Maori" .So when anything occurs even if it does not affect them they want compensation. I think "ow" is writing with tongue in cheek but is probably quite accurate in expressing what Buddy Mikaere would really like. I hope the Government wins this one.


The reef is not a rubbish dump.

Posted on 01-11-2013 15:58 | By Bill Hazeldine

The wreck should be removed. The longer the owners leave it there, the more they should pay The $10 Million should cover the time it's been there so far,


You have to be kidding!

Posted on 01-11-2013 16:18 | By mlow

What gives 27 residents the right to make ANY deal with the government. Where is the reef mentioned in the treaty!!?? Havent they got enough in their hands already??


Overit

Posted on 01-11-2013 16:24 | By overit

Ow, that $10million can go a long way to look after all NZers.


life goes on

Posted on 01-11-2013 17:03 | By Calm Gully

If the Rena is removed now, surely it will disrupt the environment that has developed since the grounding. The government have spent a lot of money during the time Rena has been there, are iwi going to supplement further work to remove it? It should not be compensation everyone is looking for it should be getting it right. Stop requesting claims just for the sake of it. Think about why it needs to be done and work together. One people/ one nation, working together, is what is needed.


if it touches

Posted on 01-11-2013 18:00 | By Buddy Mikaere

Nobody is asking for rent in the terms you mention - that's just ridiculous. When you have something sensible to say make a positive contribution. In the meantime I suggest you just breathe through your nose - slowly and evenly.


whaT!!

Posted on 01-11-2013 19:54 | By asdf

What do you mean look after "your people" .. the $10 million is for damages and stuff.. and why should the council.. better idea get off your **** and get qualifications and apply for jobs.. everyone else has to, and the other people don't get money to look after themselves


Sad state of affairs

Posted on 03-11-2013 08:31 | By Jeepers

The people who make racist, uninformed, some completely ignorant statements below are so blinded by their own racism that they miss the point. The point is, the govt has an underhanded agreement (not surprizing or a first) and are not willing to share the details, in fact going all out to defend their private little deal. They will have forced/threatened/extorted the regional council into signing up to the deal (because that's how our govt behaves) putting BOPRC in the most compromising position possible. The govt would have denied any of the $10mill to BOPRC who outlayed costs during the response and who are entitled thru MNZ (the govt) to recoup. That's extortion. That's bullying. That's unethical. That's our govt for you - the puppet masters and you lot the willing puppets.


Isn't It Amazing

Posted on 04-11-2013 10:00 | By Jitter

This is not a confidential agreement by Government and the owners of the Rena. As far as I am aware it was open and above board. It is confidential from the point of view of detail only. If any of the settlement money is due to anyone it is to the whole of the BOP people not just one select minority group.I have just read 3 versions of the Treaty and am struggling to see where the decision violates the Treaty principles. "Jeepers" appears to be paranoid over the way the government operates. The Government is now getting compensation for taxpayer money it paid out for the clean up so we all benefit.


Get real..

Posted on 04-11-2013 13:07 | By penguin

Buddy, you need to get real over this. Maori are adept at using the Treaty to get what they want. Advice like yours regarding "deep breathing," goes a long way to alienate you and maoridom from the rest of New Zealand. It's time for you to realise and accept that we are one multicultural nation, whether you like the idea or not!


mr ken

Posted on 05-11-2013 12:54 | By pamken

hear we go again, now the maori claim the reef,in the name of the treaty, the Motiti island people have been given a large sum of money,but still they want more,the Rena had an effect on us all, but it seems the only ones to get a hand out are maori, leave the wreck there, let it become a dive site and bring in trade then it will benefit all of us not just the ones that think they own everything in the name of the treaty.


Sick & Tired.

Posted on 05-11-2013 14:37 | By dms63

I agree with Jitter...Buddy you say that the government has not talked to you about it. You say "we've been left completely out of the loop"...Well HELLO... Welcome to the world of the rest of NZ. We have not been kept in the loop about the Treaty settlements. There are no 'principles' in the Treaty and it does not give the Maori any special rights! Hobson said as each chief signed the Treaty.."He iwi tahi tatou - We are one people now" That's how NZ was meant to be & should be. You should read "Twisting The Treaty"


Mr Ken

Posted on 05-11-2013 16:18 | By pamken

another 10mil to Maori says ow haven't you bleed this country enough maybe we should start charging Maori for technology they certainly didn't have that in the treaty


BUDDY AND HIS BLUDGERS!

Posted on 05-11-2013 22:51 | By crazyhorse

An iwi opposed to the Ruataniwha dam says if the scheme proceeds it should be scaled back by a third and users charged a 5c per cubic metre levy to mitigate the environmental and "cultural" effects of the project. The iwi want a 5c per cubic metre charge on all water used for irrigation under the scheme "such monies to be used for iwi/hapu "cultural" monitoring and kaitiakitanga [guardianship] purposes, including environmental mitigation and enhancement". How do you lot keep a straight face when you talk this "s##t"


More crazyhorse nonsense

Posted on 07-11-2013 11:26 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse describes Maori objections to the Ruataniwha scheme as bludging. Crazyhorse is ignoring the fact that the scheme would have a major harmful effect on Maori communities downstream. Crazyhorse is quite happy to see the Pakeha majority bulldoze their way over Maori interests. So long as the Pakeha majority gets their way crazyhorse does not care about racial harmony.


Jitter and the Treaty

Posted on 07-11-2013 11:33 | By Peter Dey

Jitter says he cannot find anything in the Treaty that would be violated by the decision to leave the Rena on the reef. The Treaty of Waitangi granted Maori full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their fisheries. The Astrolabe reef is part of Motiti Island fisheries. It has been disturbed. Motiti is fully entitled to insist that the Government, as a party to the Treaty, have the Rena removed.


dms63 is misled

Posted on 07-11-2013 11:39 | By Peter Dey

dms63 says he is sick and tired of Maori claims. He has been misled by "Twisting the Treaty". New Zealand Governments now fully support the honouring of the Treaty of Waitangi. This means that the present Government now supports Maori having full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their fisheries. Maori should be in the Rena loop.


Pamken, the Rena is not a clean wreck.

Posted on 07-11-2013 11:43 | By Peter Dey

Pamken wants to leave the Rena where it is. He is ignoring the fact that the Rena was carrying toxic material. Motiti do not want the risks of long term toxic material in their fisheries. Their objection is totally valid.


penguin, Buddy is totally for real

Posted on 07-11-2013 16:08 | By Peter Dey

penguin seems to think because we are one multicultural nation that the Pakeha majority can bulldoze over Maori, and that justice can be ignored. Maori are such a small minority that Treaty justice for Motiti costs the rest of us very little. Maritime NZ required the owners of the Rena to remove it in 2011. Pakeha who want the Rena left on the reef are simply opposed to justice for Maori.


monty1212, iwi want very little

Posted on 07-11-2013 20:11 | By Peter Dey

monty asks whether there is anything that Maori do not want a share of. Maori want a share of very little. They simply want the promises made to them to be honoured. Maori were promised full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their fisheries. That is all they are now asking for. Monty1212 is getting wound up over nothing.


No.

Posted on 08-11-2013 16:03 | By dms63

No Peter Day. The Maori, and ALL the people of New Zealand were guaranteed the possession of their lands, dwellings and their property. The real treaty says nothing about "their Fisheries". The sooner we get rid of this government, (who seems happy and willing to turn this beautiful country of ours into a country of apartheid), the better for all New Zealanders.


dms63 is being conned

Posted on 08-11-2013 17:16 | By Peter Dey

Books like "Twisting the Treaty" are conning people about the English version of the Treaty. The official English version of the Treaty confirms and guarantees to Maori the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties. This version was sent officially to Sydney by Governor Hobson on February 5-6 1840. People who deny this are trying to rewrite history.


dms63, all major Parties support the Treaty

Posted on 08-11-2013 17:22 | By Peter Dey

dms63 wants to get rid of the present Government because they support the official English version of the Treaty. That makes no sense because all major Political Parties support the official English version of the Treaty, and the Treaty settlement process. They do this because of the undeniable correctness of what they are doing. Talk of apartheid in New Zealand is total ignorance of apartheid, and of New Zealand.


MORE DRIBBLE FROM DEY!

Posted on 09-11-2013 11:44 | By crazyhorse

Perhaps you can explain the harmful effect the Ruataniwha scheme will have on part maori down stream, also explain how a 5c charge going to them for every cubic meter of water makes all this cultural damage go away. Motiti iwi did very well out of the Rena so far, $300,000 PLUS lots of tax payer funded extras new wharf and so on, is that enough, hell no, we put our hand out once and look what we got lets have another shot, if they get enough "koha" that wreck can stay there and everyone knows it, also Dey that dam is for everyone including part maori, people need the water but local iwi see a chance to extort money from the NZ tax payer for a project we all benefit from, "losers bludgers".


More half-truth from crazyhorse

Posted on 09-11-2013 12:55 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse is avoiding the point that Buddy Mikaere made. The Treaty of Waitangi promised Maori undisturbed possession of their fisheries. Buddy is simply pointing out that if the Government honours the Treaty, then it should have the Rena removed if that is what Motiti Island wants. The Ruataniwha dam will harm Maori fisheries downstream. Crazyhorse supports injustice to Maori if the Pakeha majority wants it.


More half-truth from Dey!

Posted on 09-11-2013 13:14 | By crazyhorse

The point I am trying to make is if Buddy gets enough koha that wreck can stay there, and it will stay there Dey!!. Please explain what fisheries are going to be damaged in the Ruataniwha scheme , also i will ask once again why a 5c a cubic meter surcharge from the NZ tax payer goes to them for water they will be using and that takes away any "cultural" damage.


crazyhorse, Ruataniwha is irrelevant to the Rena

Posted on 09-11-2013 17:12 | By Peter Dey

Buddy Mikaere was commenting on the Rena. Crazyhorse should stick to doing the same. His views on the Ruataniwha scheme are totally ill-informed and irrelevant to the Rena.


MONEY FOR NOTHING TRICKS FOR FREE

Posted on 10-11-2013 01:12 | By crazyhorse

I'm merely pointing out that in both cases we are looking at "KOHA" to fix the problem, when can we talk about the latest "KOHA" taken from the national Kohango Reo, Dame Iritana Tawhiwhirangi and daughter-in-law Lynda Tawhiwhirangi need to be talked about, I have researched this deeply and need your help.


OW YOU STARTED THIS

Posted on 10-11-2013 01:17 | By crazyhorse

See what a sense of humour can do, if you had watched tv the other night instead of stirring people up Dey could have stayed on his hands and knees reading twisting the treaty.


crazyhorse, Buddy's comment is still fair

Posted on 10-11-2013 17:12 | By Peter Dey

If the Government decides to not support the Motiti request to have the Rena removed, then any compensation payment that is made should be shared with Motiti. That is not extortion as crazyhorse describes it. It is compromise. Quoting Ruataniwha or Kohanga Reo has nothing to do with the Rena or honouring the Treaty. They are just crazyhorse avoiding the point that compensation is not extortion.


crazyhorse is misusing the word koha

Posted on 10-11-2013 17:37 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse seems to be suggesting that any money received by Maori is koha, that Maori are making unjustified claims, and that koha is therefore usually unjustified. Crazyhorse is confused. Koha is given in response to some service. Compensation for harm done is not koha. Buddy Mikaere is not asking for koha. He is asking for the Government to honour the Treaty, and to keep Motiti informed.


Rubbish

Posted on 10-11-2013 17:53 | By Jitter

Peter Dey has been having an attack of verbal diaorhea. Nowhere in the origional version of the Treaty does it mention any of the specific claims he is making. "Maori" are twisting the Treaty to suit their own demands so he cannot accuse the rest of NZ of doing the same. Many "Maori"(Peter Dey included if he is "Maori") are racist separatists claiming what they never owned in the first place. Claiming everything as their cultural right has gone past it's used by date and the 85% non "Maori" are fed up to the back teeth with it. I wonder how many non "Maori" are aware of the special priveleges afforded "Maori" in the Health System for example ? Would they like to know ?


Peter Day and disturbed fish

Posted on 10-11-2013 19:52 | By Murray.Guy

Peter Dey asserts, 'The Treaty of Waitangi promised Maori undisturbed possession of their fisheries. Buddy is simply pointing out that if the Government honours the Treaty, then it should have the Rena removed if that is what Motiti Island wants.' ... I suspect that is just an opinion of convenience, The 'act of destruction' by the Rena grounding happened and a disturbance took place. It was not the 'doing of the Crown' and as such the Crown (citizens of NZ) cannot be held liable or responsible in the absence of any neglect identified. The 'Crowns response' to the disturbance is another matter which, for the most part, will be determined appropriately by the Environment Court. There are few options in regard the way forward, basically, to remove or not remove. Given the disturbance has taken place, what future actions will least further exasperate the harm done, provide maximum mitigation?


Crazyhorse, everything you say has an answer

Posted on 10-11-2013 20:27 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, it was the number of comments showing poor understanding that got this column going. The joke by ow was a good starter. As long as you keep making comments, this column will keep going. Because you use selective information or half-truth there is an answer to everything you say.


OWNERSHIP BUDDY OR DEY?

Posted on 10-11-2013 22:00 | By crazyhorse

Please clear up for all of us legal ownership motiti iwi have for the astrolabe, as in paper work, tax recepts for all work done so far, it would have all been invoiced to the owners.


Maritime NZ issued a removal notice in 2011

Posted on 10-11-2013 22:00 | By Peter Dey

Murray Guy seems to be ignoring the point made by Buddy that Maritime NZ issued a removal notice for the Rena in 2011. The Government is not being held responsible for the wreck, but surely the Government should be able to get the removal notice carried out.


Jitter is being conned

Posted on 10-11-2013 22:12 | By Peter Dey

Jitter seems to believe the misinformation that the official English version of the Treaty used by the Waitangi Tribunal is false. It is not false. It says that the Queen confirms and guarantees to Maori "the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties." Governor Hobson made this version official when he sent a copy to Sydney on February 5 1840.


Jitter is trusting unreliable sources

Posted on 10-11-2013 22:27 | By Peter Dey

Jitter seems to be repeating incorrect information from unreliable sources. He says that many Maori are claiming what they never owned in the first place. That is a fictitious claim that he cannot possible backup. The Government has paid out about $2 billion in Treaty settlements. No claims approved have been shown to be false. Maori are not claiming everything as their cultural right. That is total fiction.


Jitter, only the misinformed are fed up

Posted on 10-11-2013 22:37 | By Peter Dey

Jitter should realise that people who write popular books, claiming that the Treaty is being twisted, all have their own personal agenda. This is why they carefully select information that supports their point of view, but is not as reliable as information from professional historians. All major political parties support the Waitangi Tribunal. Race relations in NZ is heading in the right direction. Only the misinformed are fed up.


The joke by ow was a good starter

Posted on 11-11-2013 09:32 | By crazyhorse

The answers only come from you Dey that does not make them truthful or right, just your opinion!. Freedom of speech is what this is all about, 4 or 5 people put comments after OW, they are entitled to their opinions, ill informed or other wise. Why don't you just leave them be, get stuck into me though I'm up for it.


crazyhorse, no ownership papers needed

Posted on 11-11-2013 22:11 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse is on a weird journey wanting Motiti to produce ownership papers for Astrolabe reef. Nowhere have Maori had ownership papers for traditional possessions. The Government does not need ownership papers to honour the Treaty, and possession granted by it.


GREAT ARTICLE ON WAITANGI TRIBUNAL

Posted on 11-11-2013 22:19 | By crazyhorse

THE FUTURE OF THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL By Dr Muriel Newman The Waitangi Tribunal was established by the Kirk Labour Government in 1975 through the Treaty of Waitangi Act as a permanent commission of inquiry into alleged breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi by the Crown. In 1985, as a result of intense lobbying by the iwi elite, the Lange Labour Government extended its jurisdiction to cover historic claims going back to 1840. The Clark Labour Government introduced a September 2008 deadline for the lodgement of all historic claims, and with the settlement of those claims now coming to an end, surely it is time to seriously consider winding up the Tribunal. Associate Professor Elizabeth Rata of Auckland University has long observed the power held by the Waitangi Tribunal and the influence it has had on our constitutional arrangements. As she explains in Marching through the institutions, once the iwi elite ‘captured' the Tribunal, they were able to significantly influence public affairs in New Zealand: 'E. T. Durie's long tenure as chair of the Waitangi Tribunal is a good example of an influential brokerage position within a pivotal government institution. His strategic plan for the cultural change required for a constitutional ‘arrangement' incorporating ‘the Treaty as a basic tenet' demonstrates the political aspirations of a broker in an institutional position with real driving power. The Tribunal played a major role in shifting the interpretation of the Treaty from its role as a grievance settlement mechanism to its role in justifying political, even constitutional, partnership”. Not only has the Tribunal played a major role in the manipulation of the agenda to legitimise the aspirations of the iwi elite, but it has also played an central part in the re-writing of New Zealand history. As Professor Rata explains, 'Their control of the main brokerage site, the Waitangi Tribunal, was pivotal in establishing, then naturalising, the concepts of treaty partnership and principles. Mason Durie has referred to the Tribunal's role in ‘rewriting New Zealand's history'. The Tribunal intentionally and actively undertook this task. Oliver describes how E. T. Durie, chair of the Tribunal from 1981 to 2000 ‘made clear his belief that the Tribunal should help to rewrite New Zealand history from a Maori point of view'”. The re-writing of history by the Waitangi Tribunal is still occurring today. It has a sinister side in that young school children are regularly indoctrinated with what is effectively anti-colonisation Tribunal propaganda. Meanwhile, governments continue to apologise for fabricated historical events that did not take place. The former Waitangi Tribunal Chairman Justice E.T. Durie even admitted that history was being distorted by the Tribunal in a paper Ethics and Values that he wrote in 1999. He attempted to justify the Tribunal's position in allowing such distortions of history: 'Tribunal members may describe the research required or may refer to particular issues and source materials that they would like to see covered. However the members must observe protocols not to influence a researcher's conclusions.” He then raised serious concerns about the reliability of some of the research evidence presented to the Waitangi Tribunal. He said that some claimant groups asked their researchers to change findings that they thought would be unhelpful to their cause, while other researchers were told they would not be paid unless they changed their conclusions. Some claimants required biased claims to be presented, by leaving out evidence that should have been included. While other claimant groups restricted who their researchers could and couldn't consult with. The fact that most of the research evidence presented by claimants was not generally available for public scrutiny served to further undermine confidence in the Waitangi Tribunal process. This week's NZCPR Guest Commentator is Independent Constitutional Review Panel member and NZCPR Research Associate Mike Butler, who has long been investigating the Treaty claims process. In his article Seven reasons why the Waitangi Tribunal must go, Mike notes that that by the early 1990s the Waitangi Tribunal's appointed members had gradually became advocates for Maori rather than independent assessors of the claims put before them: 'When ‘Maoridom', in the 1980s, took claims related to State-owned enterprise land, and fisheries quota to the Waitangi Tribunal, they stumbled upon a strategy to twist the treaty to grab money and power. Tribal opportunists will take a claim to the Waitangi Tribunal in the knowledge that they will get an extensive document that will report in their favour. Next step is the High Court where they will either succeed or go to the Appeal Court, and if unsuccessful there, on to the Supreme Court. 'While the claim is going through the different legal levels, claimants will repeat their outrageous claim until it becomes embedded in the public consciousness as a fact. The claim does not necessarily have to succeed because at any point a spineless government could cave in and grant a concession. 'Once the Waitangi Tribunal was perceived as an advocacy body rather than a commission of inquiry, such a strategy appeared infallible. This strategy has been used successfully in relation to state-owned enterprises and fisheries, and is currently in use for water rights and the electromagnetic spectrum.” If the Waitangi Tribunal is disbanded, any remaining claims could be dealt with either by direct negotiation with the Crown - which more and more claimants are doing anyway - or by recourse to the courts. While activists would argue that it is their ‘right' to have the Tribunal investigate contemporary claims, the reality is that not only are there plenty of other avenues by which citizens can challenge the actions of their government, but there is no justification for giving any group of citizens special rights to better justice than any other group of New Zealanders. The Waitangi Tribunal consists of a chairman and up to 20 members who are appointed for a three year term by the Governor-General - on the recommendation of the Minister of Maori Affairs. The chairman must be either a judge or a retired judge of the High Court, or the chief judge of the Maori Land Court. The present chairman of the Waitangi Tribunal is Chief Judge Wilson Isaac, the chief judge of the Maori Land Court, who is Ngati Porou, Tuhoe, and Ngati Kahungunu. The deputy chairman is Judge Stephanie Milroy, who is also a member of the Maori Land Court. Listed on the Waitangi Tribunal website are 21 more Tribunal members: Dr Robyn Anderson, a former iwi researcher; John Baird, a company director; Dr Angela Ballara, an authority on Maori customary history; Tim Castle, a barrister and Maori advocate; Ronald Crosby, a resource management lawyer; Dr Aroha Harris, a lecturer and iwi researcher; Prof Richard Hill, director of Victoria University's Treaty of Waitangi Research Unit; Hon Sir Douglas Kidd, a former Minister of Maori Affairs; Prof Sir Hirini Moko Mead, a tribal negotiator and former head of Maori Studies at Victoria University; Joanne Morris, the Broadcasting Standards Authority chairman; Basil Morrison, former president of Local Government New Zealand; Kihi Ngatai, a kaumatua adviser; Dr Ann Parsonson, a University of Waikato Maori Studies associate and iwi researcher; Dr Grant Phillipson, a former Tribunal researcher; Prof Sir Tamati Reedy, a former Department of Maori Affairs chief executive; Tania Simpson, a Maori consulting company chief executive; Dr Monty Soutar, a Maori researcher; Prof Pou Temara, a University of Waikato professor of Maori and Tribunal claims mediator; Keita Walker, a Maori language advisor; Prof Ranginui Walker, a Maori academic; and Kaa Williams, a Maori language expert. The Waitangi Tribunal has 60 staff and this year will cost $11 million to run. The Crown will spend over $2 million preparing documentation and evidence on the claims that will come before the Tribunal. The Office of Treaty Settlements, which has 130 staff and manages the claims process - taking care of the almost $400 million of surplus Crown property that has been placed in the ‘landbank' for settlement purposes - spent almost $30 million in the nine months to 31 March 2013. This year's Budget contains a multi-year appropriation of $1.4 billion for the next five years to cover the redress of cash and assets needed for the settlement of claims. In addition, Vote Treaty Negotiations has been allocated $60 million for the management of the claims process of which $8 million is earmarked for claimant funding. Claimant funding for the Treaty settlement process is a significant cost to taxpayers. With four main sources of claimant funding - legal aid, the Office of Treaty Settlements, the Crown Forestry Rental Trust, and direct appropriations from the Crown - there are serious concerns on the record about the risk of claimants ‘double-dipping'. A 2011 report by the Legal Services Agency highlighted concerns about the levels of Treaty claims legal aid funding: 'The total cost of legal aid for Waitangi Tribunal matters and associated settlement negotiations has increased markedly, from $11.7 million in 2008/09 to $16.4 million in 2009/10. The average cost of legal aid for Waitangi Tribunal cases finalised in 2009/10 was $108,492. During the same period the average cost of legal aid for finalised criminal cases was $1,343; for family court cases it was $1,876 and; for other civil cases it was $3,474. As this shows, Waitangi Tribunal cases are high cost, relative to other types of cases. There are currently more than 800 active Waitangi Tribunal legal aid cases.”[1] An expensive Waitangi Tribunal claim that hit the news recently was the Maori Council's claim for the ownership of fresh water. Lodged in February 2012, by October the cost had blown out to over $1.2 million - $191,000 for the cost of the Waitangi Tribunal, $323,000 in claimants' legal aid, $671,000 in costs for Crown lawyers, and a further $55,000 for the cost of Crown consultation.[2] Another avenue of claimant funding is the Crown Forestry Rental Trust, an entity established by the government in 1989 to collect and invest the rental fees from Crown forests awaiting settlement. The interest earned from investments is available to help claimants prepare their claims to the Waitangi Tribunal and negotiate with the Crown. This year the Trust expects to disburse some $30 million in claimant funding. If you are thinking that the country would be better off without the Waitangi Tribunal grievance industry, then the government's constitutional review gives you the opportunity to say so. While the terms of reference of the review specify that 'Crown-Maori relationship matters' will be investigated, the Waitangi Tribunal is not mentioned. However, the submission page explains, 'You can make a submission on other aspects of New Zealand's constitution. If there is sufficient interest in a constitutional topic outside the terms of reference, the Panel may report on it.” If you encourage others to have their say HERE on the future of the Waitangi Tribunal, then its abolition could become part of the future political agenda. One final matter - as a condition of the Maori Party's 2008 coalition deal with National, Crown ownership of the foreshore and seabed was repealed in favour of private tribal ownership and control under the Marine and Coastal Area Act. The first tribal claim is now underway, and the Office of Treaty Settlements is seeking feedback from East Coast recreational users, commercial operators and the general public, on whether Ngati Porou can successfully argue that they have 'occupied” the coastal area continuously and exclusively since 1840. Ngati Porou has already received many millions of dollars in taxpayer funding for the coast as a result of an agreement they entered into with the government under the old Foreshore and Seabed Law. The ‘spoils' are now much greater, of course - under the new law ownership rights and private title are on offer, instead of the management rights available under the old law. Fishermen, boaties, surfers, and all recreational and commercial users of the coast should take an active interest in this claim, as it will no doubt set a precedent for other claims for coastal areas around New Zealand that will be lodged ahead of the 1 April 2017 deadline. For more information on the Ngati Porou claim including details of consultation meetings,


The Resource Management Act requires consultation

Posted on 11-11-2013 22:24 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse has not answered Buddy's comment that the Resource Management Act requires the Government to act reasonably in good faith, and to consult with Maori over Treaty issues, such as the Motiti concern about the Astrolabe reef.


Twisting the Treaty

Posted on 11-11-2013 22:32 | By crazyhorse

Dey you go on about this book being full of untruths, your historians are all payed by gov't and iwi for their "findings" so that makes them suspect to say the least, why have your historians not come out to challenge Twisting the Treaty. Because they would have to produce the evidence they use for their revisionist findings, the authors of this book have thrown the gauntlet down Dey, why will your heroes not pick it up?


Dr MICHAEL BASSETT FORMER WAITANGI TRIBUNAL MEMBER

Posted on 12-11-2013 08:36 | By crazyhorse

The industry doesn't want the Tribunal process ever to end. After 23 years, no decision has yet been made to close off new historical claims. The major parties dither. Labour wants the party vote of Maori; National isn't sure they mightn't need the Maori Party's support after the coming election. Both major political parties know that what is happening is wrong, and that ordinary Maori in whose name the claims are made, aren't getting a cracker out of the money being spent on lawyers, researchers and Tribunal staff." Previously he wrote "Existing claims must be settled as quickly as possible. Stopping fresh historical claims means that full and final settlements already made have a chance of working longer term. The Waitangi process was never intended as a permanent career for lawyers and under-employed 'researchers”. It was to assist ordinary Maori whose interests, sadly, are too often over-looked."


Justice E.T. Durie

Posted on 12-11-2013 08:48 | By crazyhorse

The former Waitangi Tribunal Chairman Justice E.T. Durie even admitted that history was being distorted by the Tribunal in a paper Ethics and Values that he wrote in 1999. this guy used to run the show, he is maori he has most to gain and even he has admitted dodgey history used, also researchers told to lie or change their findings to suit the claims at the time, "any bells ringing campers".


Muriel Newman ignores important figures

Posted on 12-11-2013 10:52 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse, Treaty settlements for Maori now total about $2 billion. Compensation of 10% or less has been paid. The real loss to Maori is about $20 billion. This means the Government and taxpayer have been enjoying the benefit of unjust earnings on $20 billion. This is $1 billion a year for over 100 years. The amounts that Muriel Newman is going on about are trivial compared to this.


crazyhorse, professsionals do not attack amateurs

Posted on 12-11-2013 13:17 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse asks why professional historians do not challenge books like Twisting the Treaty. I assume it is because popular books written by amateurs are full of a mixture of sound information and misinformation. Correcting the misinformation would be far too time consuming to be justified. People should simply be careful in quoting from populist amateur historians.


crazyhorse, professionals are reliable

Posted on 12-11-2013 15:02 | By Peter Dey

The reason why professional historians do not challenge unqualified amateurs like the authors of Twisting the Treaty is probably the same as the reason that professional builders do not challenge unqualified amateur builders. The professionals are too busy getting on with their job, and sensible people eventually realise for themselves that unqualified amateurs are unreliable.


ET DURIE HEAD OF THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL,

Posted on 12-11-2013 16:11 | By crazyhorse

from 1981 till 2000, extracts from a paper he wrote himself, "values and ethics in maori research" as in history used to settle claims!!. 3) Claimant groups who have commissioned researchers have sometimes required researchers to remove material unhelpful to the claimants' case or amend their conclusions, sometimes as a condition to being paid. Are there terms that researchers should negotiate with claimant groups beforehand?. 7) How widely should one consult with tribal persons? There are sometimes complaints that the researcher consulted with only one side of the tribe. There are also complaints from researchers of instructions not to consult with certain persons, or to consult only those approved by the claimant group. Some groups prefer a Pakeha researcher to describe a tribal history to avoid a Maori bias to one view. "Straight from the horses mouth" Full paper on line, http://www.vanuatu.usp.ac.fj/library/Online/USP%20Only/Customary%20Law/Durie.htm


crazyhorse, E.T.Durie wanted a code of ethics

Posted on 12-11-2013 22:10 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse quotes E.T.Durie discussing unsatisfactory research practices with the Waitangi tribunal as though unsatisfactory practices are widespread. In fact E.T.Durie was giving isolated examples, and suggesting that a code of ethics for researchers would be desirable. He certainly in no way condoned the unsatisfactory research practices that he quoted. They were examples of what should not happen.


THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL

Posted on 12-11-2013 22:34 | By crazyhorse

The waitangi tribunal run by maori for maori, no public input, •Waitangi Tribunal hearings do not use cross-examinations, a move criticised by London Privy Councillor Lord Robin Cooke for” "making it 'impossible to test adequately some of the material.” How can you say this is fair and just, at least the history used should be on show to the public, and I mean the full history, but is that enough "Bull S### so far, hell no. Nationals "Ngai Tahu negotiator" Chris Finlayson ticks it off, what a laugh we all are!.


Muriel Newman ignores important figures

Posted on 13-11-2013 08:05 | By crazyhorse

Your right Dey, she forgot the 1.4 billion dollars a year for maori only health, education, tv stations, radio stations, sports teams, housing and so. Thanks for that I will email her to get with it.


Maori only spending is a share not extra, crazyhorse

Posted on 13-11-2013 10:24 | By Peter Dey

Maori only spending such as Maori schools is not extra spending on Maori. It is just a fair share for Maori spent in a way that suits Maori. Muriel should be told this because she ignores it.


crazyhorse, one swallow does not a summer make

Posted on 13-11-2013 10:39 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse is trying to show that the Waitangi Tribunal is corrupt. However picking out individual examples of unsatisfactory practices, or individual opinions, like Michael Bassett, proves nothing. One corrupt MP does not make Parliament corrupt. One corrupt individual does not make the Waitangi Tribunal corrupt. One swallow does not make a summer.


Obsessed with compensation, ignoring injustice

Posted on 13-11-2013 11:46 | By Peter Dey

Both crazyhorse and Muriel Newman are obsessed with the fact that Maori are receiving compensation for injustice. They keep obsessing about the size of the compensation and completely ignore the size of the injustice. As Buddy Mikaere points out, justice for Maori would be having the Rena removed, and the Government has an obligation to support this.


crazyhorse, obsessed with theory not reality

Posted on 13-11-2013 14:28 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse complains that the Waitangi Tribunal does not allow cross-examination, or public input. He is obsessed with theory and not reality. The Tribunal can only make recommendations. It is not a court of law. If it operated the way crazyhorse wants, it would cost billions of dollars to run and take years to complete claims. Crazyhorse has produced no evidence that the Tribunal is corrupt. Individual wrongdoing is not corruption.


Peter Dey The Biased

Posted on 13-11-2013 15:32 | By Jitter

Peter Dey says everyone else is biased but he is correct and states the "facts". Unfortunately many of his statements are twisted to fit in with his point of view and with what he says are "fact". How would he feel if the 85% non "Maori" population went to court and put forward a claim for all the advantages "Maori" have gained from the settlement of NZ by the European and others. For example, creating a written "Maori" language by a European. In fact it is not a written 'Maori" language but an Englishmans interpretation of how the "Maori language looks like written down. In fact it is "Maori" written in English. That must be worth at least one billion dollars minimum. I know this claim will never happen but it is an interesting thought.


The Tribunal can only make recommendations. It is not a court of law.

Posted on 13-11-2013 18:43 | By crazyhorse

How many of the claims passed on from the TOW tribunal to the Ngai Tahu negotiator Chris Finlayson have been turned down then Dey. E T Durie ran the Waitangi tribunal from 1988 till 2000 he states the evidence from researchers was made up to suit, and that's why Bassett walked out on the TOW tribunal, very little of the history used in these claims is available to the public. I'm not interested in what you think Dey I am supplying information so people can make up their own minds. Your an a apologist Dey local iwi could set of a thermo nuclear device in the middle of Tauranga and you would come up with an excuse for them. New Zealand has a legal system, not a justice system and it is definitely not, black and white. Don't believe all you are told - do your own research!!


Obsessed with compensation, but it happened 170

Posted on 13-11-2013 19:11 | By crazyhorse

Years ago, let it go, none of us were around then, there are no full maori left, I blame it on the scotch ancestry they are always keen on making a dollar, maybe Dutch as well,1/3 Dutch 1/3 maori 1/3 Scotch, maybe a little Indian too, gawd now I know what the trouble is, it's not the maori part at all that's got the hand out, it's the other bits, sorry Dey!!.


Jitter, Governments treated Maori and Pakeha differently

Posted on 13-11-2013 21:02 | By Peter Dey

Jitter says that Pakeha should go to court and make a claim for everything that Maori have received from non-Maori. No doubt Maori are grateful for everything they have received from non-Maori. The difference for Maori is that they received injustice from the Government for over 100 years. The Waitangi Tribunal was set up to investigate systematic Government injustice to Maori. Non-Maori never suffered systematic injustice from the Government.


Crazyhorse, 170 years and Maori tribes still exist

Posted on 13-11-2013 21:15 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse has been misled by Twisting the Treaty into believing that Maori want individual benefits from the Waitangi Tribunal. Claims to the Tribunal are by tribes, and settlements go to tribes. Percentage of Maori ancestry is irrelevant because tribes choose to treat all tribal descendants equally. Tribes were defrauded. Compensation to these same tribes is fair and justified.


Crazyhorse is misrepresenting Eddie Durie

Posted on 13-11-2013 21:24 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse says that when Eddie Durie was chair of the Waitangi Tribunal evidence from researchers was made up to suit. He is suggesting that Eddie Durie approved of this, and that it was widespread. In fact Eddie Durie did not approve of researchers making up evidence and proposed a code of ethics for researchers to deal with this.


Jitter, here is a fact that is not twisted

Posted on 13-11-2013 22:55 | By Peter Dey

Jitter believes that I am twisting facts. A fact that I am not twisting is that Governor Hobson sent an official copy of the Waitangi Tribunal English version of the Treaty of Waitangi to Sydney on February 5-6 1840. This is recorded in Claudia Orange's book, The Treaty of Waitangi, on page 272. This document is in the Colonial Office records. This contradicts what Twisting the Treaty says.


Crazyhorse, the compensation is nearly completed

Posted on 14-11-2013 10:00 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse says that because injustice to Maori happened 170 years ago, none of us were around then, and there are no full Maori left, that we should just let the injustice go. However now that the compensation to Maori is nearly completed, Crazyhorse's comment does not make sense. No sensible Government is going to stop compensation half-completed. That would be crazy.


Waitangi Tribunal information publicly available

Posted on 14-11-2013 11:02 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse says that very little of the historical information used in Treaty claims is available to the public. This sounds like a false generalisation not supported by fact. The Tauranga-Moana claim has a very full report available on line. Michael Bassett was a member of the Tauranga-Moana Tribunal, and supported the Tribunal recommendation that compensation should be paid. Crazyhorse has still not produced any credible evidence of Tribunal corruption.


Crazyhorse has not challenged Buddy's main point

Posted on 14-11-2013 11:15 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse describes Buddy Mikaere as a bludger, but crazyhorse has sidestepped Buddy's main point that the Government is required by the Resource Management Act to consult with Maori. The Government is consulting with the Rena owners but not affected Maori. Nothing that Buddy has said justifies the accusation bludger.


. The Government is consulting with the Rena owners but not affected Maori

Posted on 15-11-2013 09:49 | By crazyhorse

This should read, The Government is consulting with the Rena owners but not affected Tauranga rate and tax payers. Buddy says!, "We're saying it's our reef". wrong again, the reef belongs to all NEWZEALANDERS, every one in Tauranga suffered as a result of that wreck but the Motiti mob get most of the compensation that should have gone to all Tauranga. Now because of another racist piece of legislation bought in by the Gov't with out any input by the other 85% of Kiwi we will end up with a stand off till the Motiti mob have milked this to the "max", it would be a nightmare to get that ship off, but, if it was cleaned of oil and hazard it would attract fish life and become a tourist attraction for divers, win, win. The conclusion to this is, that ship "will stay there" and the Motiti mob get KOHA ALOT!!!!!!!!


Waitangi Tribunal information publicly available

Posted on 15-11-2013 10:05 | By crazyhorse

Anyone wanting to check this untruth from Dey that all history on TOW claims is available to the public can check it out for themselves. The Gov't web site ,http://www.ots.govt.nz/


opinion expressed by the late Wi Kuki Kaa in Te Putatara 5/90 of 21st May 1990:

Posted on 15-11-2013 11:07 | By crazyhorse

'I resent the implication that the Kahui Ariki at Waitangi 1840 didn‘t quite know what they were about. E hika ma! They weren‘t dumb; they were learned men, products of missionary education. They wanted, because they needed it, a document to create some form of law and order: to protect themselves from the rapaciousness of the re-settlers whose material goods had helped to improve their standard of living; but also from those of us in the Tai Rawhiti and elsewhere still smarting from the humiliations inflicted on us by Cyclone Hongi, Cyclone Pomare or Cyclone Patuone. 'The Tai Tokerau people were becoming prosperous - a situation which only thrives in a climate of peace.


Is The Waitangi Tribunal Corrupt?

Posted on 15-11-2013 11:17 | By crazyhorse

Past members of the Waitangi Tribunal believe it is! A recently published book by Dr John Robinson, 'The Corruption of New Zealand Democracy - A Treaty Industry Overview' puts right his astonishing revelation that as a Waitangi Tribunal researcher he had to falsify evidence to get paid. Hired to study Maori depopulation from 1850-1900, he found the main cause was a chronic shortage of potential parents. The inter-tribal holocaust of the 1820s and 1830s had extinguished up to forty percent of the race, and it was customary practice to kill newborn girls. This was not what Dr Robinson's state masters wanted to hear. They ‘encouraged' him to blame the decline on the ‘catastrophic' effects of Maori land loss. And so, against all the evidence, he did. His book sets the record straight. It exposes the corruption within the Waitangi Tribunal to write reports to allow claims to proceed. During our research for this article we came across 5 other ex-Waitangi Tribunal members that were concerned with re-writing our history to allow some of these claims to proceed. This included former Labour Cabinet Minister Michael Bassett who regularly criticised the tribunal, accusing his fellow members of bias. He criticised the tribunal's Tauranga report, in which he recorded a minority view. In a subsequent newspaper column he accused his fellow members of 'inventive arguments” and said it was time to 'review the tribunal's usefulness”. After ten years on the Tribunal he did not want to be reappointed. Six ex-Waitangi Tribunal members have now come forward to expose the corruption within the Tribunal to deceive the people of New Zealand. We also believe there are a lot of people who work in the treaty claims industry - whether they work for the tribunal or the Office of Treaty Settlements or whatever - who share some concerns about the way history is being distorted/rewritten, but they are not in a position to voice those concerns. Many of these claims had been heard in 1930/40 and while some were rejected others received full and final settlement. The Waitangi Tribunal has recommended and the government has settled many these claims again costing millions of dollars and some of our countries most valuable assets but from the six members of the Waitangi Tribunal that have come forward, it seems on rewritten history or corrupt evidence. See article below. Instead of the Waitangi Tribunal and the Office of Treaty Settlement researching our history to prove a breach to the Treaty of Waitangi occurred, they are now re-writing history and the Treaty to allow the claim to proceed. This was never the intention of the taxpayer funded Waitangi Tribunal or the Office of Treaty Settlements. The Government must hold an inquiry into the alleged corruption within the Waitangi Tribunal and the Office of Treaty Settlements.


Crazyhorse, what about the 150 word limit

Posted on 15-11-2013 19:53 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, do you have special privileges with the moderation team? Previously 2000 words about the Waitangi Tribunal and now 500 words about the Tribunal. Proof of a corrupt Tribunal would require evidence of widespread and ongoing bad practice. So far you have produced evidence of one incident from John Robinson and generalised criticism from Michael Bassett. Be more specific if you want to prove corruption.


All history is not available on the OTS website

Posted on 15-11-2013 21:01 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse criticises the Office of Treaty Settlements for not having a full history of every Treaty claim. His criticism is unrealistic. The Office of Treaty Settlements and the Waitangi Tribunal are not Courts of Law. They are not required to keep word for word records of everything said in a claim. Reports on Treaty settlements are sufficient to justify the compensation paid, which is only 10% compensation.


the Government is required by the Resource Management Act to consult with Maori.

Posted on 15-11-2013 21:47 | By crazyhorse

(1) This should say, the Government is required by the Resource Management Act to consult with the rate and tax payers of Tauranga. (2)Buddy says, We're saying it's our reef, wrong again, it belongs to all NEWZEALANDERS. (3)All Tauranga people were effected by this wreck, why should some racist legislation from the National Gov't give the Motiti mob of how many I don't know have superiority over the Tauranga populous. Conclusion, that wreck will stay there moving it would cause more damage than leaving it, if they clean the wreck it will attract fish life not kill it, then become a tourism destination for divers, also the Motiti mob will get lots'a "KOHA", AND THATS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!.i


Crazyhorse, what about the 150 word limit

Posted on 15-11-2013 23:15 | By crazyhorse

I thank SunLive for my comments, but, I have found so much corruption in the Waitangi tribunal and everyone involved that I may need to write a book on tow settlements myself. I will write about corrupt historians, researchers that lie ,and my favourite, "treaty troughing lawyers", last of all apologists. you and bell will be stars.


Excellent

Posted on 16-11-2013 08:11 | By ow

Keep up the information guys, lots of people are following what you have to say.


Crazyhorse, wishing so does not make it so

Posted on 16-11-2013 17:55 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, the Resource Management Act is what it is. Saying it should be different changes nothing. The Astrolabe reef is part of Motiti Island fisheries. The Treaty of Waitangi promises Motiti continued possession of the reef. The Resource Management Act requires the Government to consult affected Maori over natural resources. Motiti only want the Government to use its influence to get the Maritime NZ removal notice carried out.


Might is not right, crazyhorse

Posted on 16-11-2013 18:46 | By Peter Dey

Motiti is not claiming superiority over the Tauranga population. Nothing that Buddy Mikaere said means that. Crazyhorse is completely misrepresenting what Buddy said. Motiti Maori have said nothing about koha. Crazyhorse seems to be saying that non-Maori should bulldoze right over justice for Maori, but might is not right.


A permanent, for-Maori-only complaint body creates a race fault line

Posted on 16-11-2013 22:09 | By crazyhorse

Labour government Maori Affairs Minister Matiu Rata apparently did not grasp the constitutional implications of a permanent for-Maori-only complaint body when he introduced the Treaty of Waitangi Bill to parliament in 1974. Such a body that divides citizens along a Maori/non-Maori fault line conflicts with the assumed underlying simple principle that in a democracy like New Zealand all citizens must be treated the same under the law. Rata said that the purpose of the Waitangi Tribunal Act was to provide for the observation and confirmation of the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi and to determine claims about certain matters that were inconsistent with those principles. He said that: 'To the Maori people it (the treaty) is a charter that should protect their rights.[1] The Leader of the Opposition, Robert Muldoon, spotted the problem after spending a couple of minutes reading the bill. 'It must be emphasized that we are in fact one people”, he said, adding, 'and the question can be asked whether special legislation of this type makes us one people or two peoples”.[2] An example of the tribunal's exclusive focus on Maori rights appeared in February 1985, when D. McMaster of Auckland asked the tribunal to end special privilege accorded to Maori people by virtue of their race, arguing that these privileges were at variance with the Treaty of Waitangi. Mr McMaster was asked whether he was a Maori. He replied that he was not a Maori, so was required to withdraw his claim because Section 6 of the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 says only Maori people can bring a claim.[3] New Zealand's race relations have deteriorated, especially since 1985, which was when the tribunal was empowered to investigate Maori claims back to 1840. (Using the tribal boundaries of 1840, decades of tribal warfare, as the basis for future claims is as absurd as taking the division of Europe as it was in 1940 as a basis for future just settlements.) That decision alone was responsible for the outpouring of claims, from three in 1987 to a total of 2034 by 2009, after the deadline for historical claims, and the payment of around $2-billion in financial redress.[4] Michael Bassett, who was a Minister in the Lange Labour government which empowered the Waitangi Tribunal to investigate Maori claims back to 1840, and later belonged to that tribunal, wrote that: 'There are few futuristic ideas that have lost their sheen as quickly as the notion that settlements of Maori grievances would improve New Zealand's race relations.”[5]


Motiti is not claiming superiority over the Tauranga population

Posted on 16-11-2013 22:52 | By crazyhorse

Why then have they ended up with most of the koha, "oops" sorry compensation so far, what about the thousands of Tauranga citizens that suffered, or "don't they count"?.


crazyhorse, most lawyers are highly paid

Posted on 17-11-2013 09:38 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse accuses lawyers involved in Treaty claims as Treaty trough lawyers. This is a very misinformed view because most lawyers are highly paid. They are extremely intelligent and highly qualified. If lawyers involved in Treaty claims are being paid at market rates, that is not a Treaty trough. Calling it a Treaty trough is just misinformed abuse.


Is Ngati Ranginui deal justified?

Posted on 17-11-2013 09:41 | By crazyhorse

About 200 people turned up at a forum in Tauranga on Monday night, to have misconceptions about local tribe Ngati Ranginui's $38-million settlement dispelled. That such a public meeting was deemed necessary implies a level of opposition to the deal that is yet to be ratified by the tribe. Usually, treaty settlements are agreed upon in private and the signed agreement is legally binding requiring legislation to release the money. How can this settlement be justified? In a press release, Treaty Negotiations Minister Chris Finlayson said the settlement, that was signed on June 23 at Te Ranga, near Tauranga, provides redress recognising that 'Ngati Ranginui and other Tauranga iwi have suffered some of the worst grievances in New Zealand's history including the loss of life and the raupatu of land”. The Office of Treaty Settlements summary skirts the issues and the Waitangi Tribunal's Report on the Tauranga Confiscation Claims offers a split decision. If this was among the worst grievances in New Zealand's history, Ngati Ranginui was not mentioned in an 1882 list of complaints taken by chiefs to England for Queen Victoria to ponder. (1) The 1926 Sim commission found that confiscations in the Bay of Plenty were largely fair. The only Bay of Plenty grievance in the 1940s round of settlements was that of Whakatohea that had sustained land confiscation, for a lump sum payment of £20,000, in the Finance No. 2 Act on October 12, 1946. It appears that the Ngati Ranginui grievance was re-discovered after 1985, when the Fourth Labour Government opened the way for further historical compensation by permitting the investigation of issues back to 1840. Nga Hapu o Ngati Ranginui's historical claims, according to the settlement summary, concern the war and confiscation at Tauranga; the purchase of the Te Puna-Katikati blocks soon after the war; the consequences of Ngati Ranginui resisting confiscation and Te Puna-Katikati purchase during the Crown's 'bush campaign”; the effects of the Crown's native land laws and later Maori land legislation; and public works takings during the second half of the twentieth century. (2) Ngati Ranginui's claims are among 55 separate claims also involving Ngai Te Rangi, Waitaha, and the Marutuahu people, according to the Waitangi Tribunal's Report on the Tauranga Confiscation Claims. The claims stem from the battles at Gate Pa (Pukehinahina) on April 29, 1864, and Te Ranga on July 21, 1864, following on from the Waikato war (3) in which 'the Maori aim was to sweep the pakeha to the sea, and the pakeha government's object was to teach the Maori his subjection to British authority”. (4) At the Battle of Gate Pa, about 230 Maori fighters under chief Rawiri Puhirake defeated 1700 British troops after withstanding a day of British artillery bombardment, the heaviest of the New Zealand Wars.(5) One hundred and eleven government fighters were killed while Gate Pa Maori lost 25. At the ensuing Battle of Te Ranga, Puhirake was killed and his fighters defeated. Ngai Te Rangi peace negotiators were able to make a symbolic submission and retain most of their lands, mainly out of the government's respect for the slaim chief Puhirake. Nevertheless, the entire Tauranga district, estimated at 290,000 acres (117,359 hectares), was included in a confiscation proclamation issued in1865. The Crown returned 240,000 acres (97,125ha) but kept a 50,000-acre (20,234ha) area. The land returned was in individual rather than customary title meaning it could be sold without having to go through the Native Land Court. Maori land owners opted to sell to become part of the new economy. (6) The Bay of Plenty area prospered over the years with little sign of discontent until the possibility of further historical compensation came into being once issues back to 1840 could be investigated. Along with $38,027,555 financial redress, the Ngati Ranginui commercial redress includes the right to buy 48 land bank properties, three Land Information New Zealand sites, and Puwhenua Forest Lands jointly with Ngati Rangiwewehi and Tapuika, and a right of first refusal for fish species introduced into the Quota Management System, according to the report summary. Cultural redress includes vesting 13 sites totalling 846.3ha. Oraeroa will be vested as a sacred area (wahi tapu) with no public access. Omokoroa School land will be transferred to the tribe subject to sale and leaseback to the Ministry of Education. The tribe will control the Margaret Jackson Wildlife Management Reserve. Six geographic names will change, two unnamed sites will be named, and the names of two Crown protected areas will be altered. Ngati Ranginui is one of eight Bay of Plenty tribal groups. If $38-million becomes the average financial redress amount, the total for the area may reach $304-million. How could the government consider paying over that amount of money for a grievance that did not exist in 1882, and was dismissed in the 1920s? How could a 1920s inquiry say that Bay of Plenty Maori were fairly treated, and the Waitangi Tribunal and Treaty Negotiations Minister conclude that 'Tauranga iwi have suffered some of the worst grievances in New Zealand's history”? Another big unanswered question is whether taking military action against the government is a treaty breach. If the tribes who fought against the government breached the treaty, how can they call on the terms of the treaty to justify compensation without recognising that their breach of the treaty warranted the punishment that was already quite leniently inflicted upon them? Sir Apirana Ngata, whose face is on every $50 banknote, was clear that the land confiscations could not be objected to in light of the treaty. He wrote in 1922: Some have said that these confiscations were wrong and that they contravened the articles of the Treaty of Waitangi. The Government placed in the hands of the Queen of England, the sovereignty and the authority to make laws. Some sections of the Maori people violated that authority. War arose from this and blood was spilled. The law came into operation and land was taken in payment. This itself is a Maori custom - revenge, plunder to avenge a wrong. It was their own chiefs who ceded that right to the Queen. The confiscations cannot therefore be objected to in the light of the treaty. (7) The Tauranga report is unique in that tribunal member Michael Bassett wrote a dissenting opinion taking issue with three of the general findings of the majority members. He argued that the Crown was justified in taking military action against Tauranga Maori in the 1860s. He argued that individualising the tenure of Maori land there was not a treaty breach, and he argued that there was no failure on the part of the Crown in supervising the alienation of returned Maori land.(8) Therefore, if Ngati Ranginui fought against the government and thereby breached the terms of the Treaty of Waitangi, and if the Crown was justified in taking military action, and was correct in allowing Tauranga Maori to sell their land and directly benefit in the new economy, what justification is there for the current $38-million settlement and associated cultural redress? The Gate Pa flag is fixed with the Union Jack flag on either side of the memorial to the New Zealand Wars in the Auckland War Memorial Museum. The inscription on the memorial reads 'Kia mate toa. In memory of all those who gave their lives during the New Zealand Wars 1845-1872. Through war they won the peace we know.” The government's apparent rush to hand over cash, assets, co-management, landmarks, and sacred areas to newly created tribal entities implies some sort of unease that could come from believing the anti-colonist allegations made by the Waitangi Tribunal. The bravery, military skill, and chivalry of the 1860s campaigns, when people died for their causes, contrast with the expedience and opportunism that is a part of politics today. It would appear that our current political leaders either have forgotten or are ignorant of our brief history. Ngati Ranginui, with Ngati Te Rangi and Ngati Pukenga iwi had ownership of Mount Maunganui transferred to them from the Crown on May 14, 2008, by an act of Parliament. Sources: 1. Ranginui Walker, Struggle Without End, p. 162. Lord Kimberley received the petition on behalf of the Queen and referred the deputation back to the New Zealand government, and Prime Minister Frederick Whittaker dismissed the petition.


Thanks SunLive

Posted on 17-11-2013 09:47 | By crazyhorse

Hi, thanks for posting the information I have found on the TOW tribunal, I can't believe what I read myself and its obvious other people have no idea, whats going on, I just see this as a way of educating people to whats happening so they can make up their own minds, I know they run over the 150 word limit but I can't shorten them for the same impact. Kind regards and cheers.


crazyhorse, Motiti did not decide the compensation

Posted on 17-11-2013 11:44 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse accuses Motiti of getting most of the Rena compensation because they think they are superior to Tauranga. Again crazyhorse is spreading malicious misinformation. Motiti did not decide on the sharing of compensation. That was done by others. The damage to Motiti was considerable. The sharing of compensation simply recognised that.


Only one piece of factual evidence in 2,500 words

Posted on 17-11-2013 11:57 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse has provided 2,500 words of criticism of the Waitangi Tribunal. In all of that criticism there is only one piece of factual evidence, and that is from John Robinson. All of the rest of the criticism is vague generalisation without factual support. It seems clear that people who criticise the Tribunal do not have any actual evidence of corruption.


History written by Pakeha has a Pakeha bias

Posted on 17-11-2013 12:15 | By Peter Dey

Michael Bassett has been critical of members of the Waitangi Tribunal for attaching too much importance to Maori oral evidence. But Tribunal Chairman, Eddie Durie, pointed out that all early New Zealand history written by Pakeha has a Pakeha bias. Because Maori receive only 10% Treaty settlement compensation, it is not unreasonable for settlements to err on the side of Maori, which Michael Bassett does not seem to accept.


most lawyers are highly paid

Posted on 17-11-2013 12:35 | By crazyhorse

Treaty troughing lawyers or treaty troughing law firms are parasites that live off the NZ tax payers like maggots on a carcase, other lawyers are highly paid, yes, but they work for individuals or a company that pays them, I pick out the law firm Palmer and Chen for an example, Palmer ex labour gov't minister had a lot to do with helping set up the TOW industry, now he is to been seen giving misty eyed interviews all the while raking in millions of your money in his fight for nz to become an "apartheid state".


That Attorney-General Geoffrey Palmer did what?

Posted on 17-11-2013 12:47 | By crazyhorse

Sir Geoffrey Palmer, the politician responsible for putting Treaty of Waitangi clauses into modern legislation, Sir Geoffrey, as Attorney-General in 1986, is variously credited and blamed for getting the unspecific Treaty clause inserted into the State-owned Enterprises Act. The Court of Appeal interpreted its meaning in 1987 and since then - whether by design or negligence - Parliament has largely followed a similar pattern: putting Treaty clauses in laws and allowing the courts to interpret them.


Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi

Posted on 17-11-2013 12:51 | By crazyhorse

'In 1989 24 years ago the 4th labour government under the leadership of the Right Honourable Sir Geoffrey Palmer established the Treaty principles.” If the Palmer government established them, then they didn't previously exist, i.e. at the time of the Waitangi meeting. It could be said that it documented the principles if the text accurately represented the original agreement. The text doesn't distinguish between Maori of the tribes who signed, and Maori of the tribes who did not sign. Hobson lied about sovereignty being ceded in entirety. If we accept that tino rangatiratanga includes sovereignty, then the text does not represent the agreement that formed the basis of the treaty.


FRANK NEWMAN ON ABUSE OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT ACT!

Posted on 17-11-2013 18:49 | By crazyhorse

New reports that Maori were charging media groups to enter a Marae at Waitangi should come as no surprise. It is totally consistent with the real agenda behind the Maori rights groups - which is about money not mana. This is why the government is foolish to enter into co-management arrangements with Maori groups, especially in sensitive areas like the foreshore and seabed. Maori know theses areas are a perpetual goldmine, hence the vehemence with which the Maori Party is pursuing this issue, including threats that it will withdraw support for the government should it not get its way. The way Maori have "rorted" the Resource Management Act is a case in point. Maori have affected party status and are advised of each and every resource consent application made to a council. When I was the Consents Commissioner for the Whangarei District Council Maori worked the system like this. The iwi of a particular area in the District required all subdivision applicants to have a cultural assessment done. They, of course, only accepted reports that they themselves prepared, and charged each applicant $700 for doing so. I sensed there was something not quite right about the reports when I realised they were all identical. The iwi simply sent a photocopied four page report, and a bill for $700. That report contained clauses that are already law anyway, like needing to be informed should bones be discovered during earthworks and so on, and also a clause that they may supervise the earthworks at an appropriate hourly rate. The applicants knew they were being taken for a ride but paid up without protest because they knew not doing so would cause delays and thousands of dollars in appeal costs. If the government thinks this will not happen when Maori get their hands on the foreshore and seabed, then it is foolish and very naive. Co-management is simply another way to exercise rights, and therefore the right to extract management fe


About time.

Posted on 17-11-2013 20:33 | By dms63

Yes...you go crazyhorse...it's about time people heard both sides, so they can then make up their own minds. No doubt Dey will find something to criticise here too. He seems to think he is the ONLY one in the know and the ONLY one who is right!! Keep it up crazyhorse, this is great.


Crazyhorse is gonna write a book,

Posted on 17-11-2013 20:43 | By robin bell

Wow!!You will need to do more than copy other peoples anecdotes and misinformation.Otherwise no publisher will touch it.Downloading propaganda from Newman,One N.z.foundation,1law4all etc.may impress your few friends but you've got to do better than that.The duplicitous John Robinson recently admitted in a debate on radio that he could not prove beyond reasonable doubt much of what he claims.Like you Crazy they deal only in biased opinion,ignoring the modern examples of Crown dishonesty,which is a pointer to more historical theft of Maori land.We all know the system is not perfect.It never will be.The distortion of facts by you and your friends will never counter any distortions you claim of Maori.That is why your crowd will never get the power you all crave.Robin Bell.


BELL, GREETINGS AND SALUTATIONS

Posted on 18-11-2013 08:21 | By crazyhorse

I was worried about you! ... Yes all the posts I'm putting up I have found on the internet, Mr google has been very kind, what is it about me posting facts or another persons opinion that irritates you. Every time you or Dey put up a comment I will put a post up with more "truth" on the TOW industry, the 1991 resource consent legislation, or any other corrupt institution I can find, have a nice Dey.


crazyhorse and the Principles of the Treaty

Posted on 18-11-2013 10:39 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse has a problem with the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi because he thinks, wrongly, that the Maori version is the only true version of the Treaty. Geoffrey Palmer knew that there were two true Treaties, a Treaty in English and a Treaty in Maori. They are not exact translations but they do not contradict. The Principles of the Treaty merges these two Treaties. No big deal.


crazyhorse, Frank Newman is not the Rena

Posted on 18-11-2013 10:47 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse produces more irrelevant information, quoting Frank Newman from Whangarei. Hearsay stories from Whangarei change nothing about the Resource Management Act. The Act requires the Government to consult with Maori over the Rena. That is all that Buddy Mikaere is asking for.


crazyhorse has only half the Ngati Ranginui story

Posted on 18-11-2013 10:54 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse has copied another 1300 words from somebody else about the Ngati Ranginui Treaty settlement. The reason that the Government agreed to a Treaty settlement with Ngati Ranginui is that the full story justified it, and the story presented by crazyhorse is biased and half-truth.


crazyhorse, Keith Sinclair contradicts Michael Bassett

Posted on 18-11-2013 11:08 | By Peter Dey

People might think that because Michael Bassett is a professional historian that his views on Treaty settlements should be respected. However Michael has never put his view, that land confiscation was justified because Maori were rebels, into a book. He could not justify this view, and it is contradicted by Keith Sinclair on page 148 of his book A History of New Zealand.


Not only were they biased Peter,

Posted on 18-11-2013 11:18 | By robin bell

they were prone to self serving lies also.Dr David Livingstone British colonial hero lied through his teeth to cover his failures.History is full of similar examples.Crazy thinks that ignoring these facts means they will go away.His assertion that if the Palmer gov'nt "established" the Treaty principles in 1989 means they didn't previously exist,is yet more crap from a seriously deluded obsessive.Fact is Crazy the "Principles"did exist but were never recognised by previous gov'nts.The rant quoting Frank Newman is another example of crazy's problem,best summed up by the last sentence "Co management is simply another way to exercise rights"correct.They are the "rights"Maori have in N.Z.I know you can't get your head around that fact Crazy,Tough! Robin Bell.


The Ngati Ranginui settlement is clearly justified

Posted on 18-11-2013 13:13 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse says that decisions made in 1882, 1924, and 1946 did not support Ngati Ranginui claims. But this only means that decision-makers at those times got it wrong. Historians are now much better informed. The opinions of Apirana Ngata and Michael Bassett about Maori rebels and land confiscation are not shared by professional historians now. The Office of Treaty Settlements can see beyond past misinformation. Their decisions are well justified.


crazyhorse, there is no fight for an apartheid state

Posted on 18-11-2013 13:24 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse accuses Geoffrey Palmer of leading the fight for an apartheid state in New Zealand. This fantasy idea shows how out of touch with reality crazyhorse is. For Maori to have apartheid control of New Zealand they would have to control the Government, the police, the army, and local government. Crazyhorse should explain how he thinks this might happen.


G. Graham

Posted on 18-11-2013 16:35 | By G. Graham

Few are aware that with the signing of the Tiriti NZ was annexed to NSW, Australia, the borders of this state extended to cover all of our islands and the English laws of NSW covered our every move. On 16-11-1840 Queen Victoria's Royal Charter, our true founding document and first constitution, separated us from NSW, Hobson, who was NSW Governor Gipps subordinate was promoted to be our Governor, it gave us our own Legislative Council and Executive Council, English law/Court system and our own flag just as the Tiriti promised. Should any feel they have been wronged a hearing aught to be held in a proper court of law, not the apartheid Waitangi Tribunal which does not take the oath, writes its own history, only Maoris may claim others ignored, has the ability to change Court rulings in favour of claimants such as Bastion point and Te Roroa


dispossessed farmers

Posted on 18-11-2013 18:33 | By crazyhorse

Dispossessed farmers, Allan & Susan Titford and family of Northland, New Zealand. When the government, in collusion with the Waitangi Tribunal, stole their farm off them using falsified history and dirty tricks, they fought back against all odds. Despite the fact that the Titfords' were ultimately able to prove, beyond any doubt, the longstanding historical integrity and legitimacy of their farm title, Attorney General, Margaret Wilson, made the unjust, politically motivated decision to hand their farm over to Te Roroa iwi claimants. In June 2001 Paramount Chief of Nga-Puhi, Graham Rankin, appealed to the Minister of Treaty Claims, the Hon. Margaret Wilson, to help the Titford family. As a learned Elder, who was very conversant with the history and genealogical lineages of Northern New Zealand, he knew that the Titford's had been unlawfully dispossessed of their farm at Maunganui Bluff, Northland.


eighteen months ago

Posted on 18-11-2013 18:41 | By crazyhorse

Eighteen months ago I met a man of good Bohemian stock. I have met him several times later, a young man with a terrible bile in his belly, and rightfully so. No living person should suffer the pain of he and his wife and children, at the hands of Government and Associates, Ministers in particular. From the time the Te Roroa claim took effect, I asked, "could this be the land of our fathers". In my view, how could Te Awha Parore and Tiopira own so much land, when Maori, at some time in our history had communistic laws? The Chief only apportions a small parcel of land for family requirements, no more, no less. The land belonged to the Tribe not the chief


te roroa

Posted on 18-11-2013 18:46 | By crazyhorse

Te Roroa people are only squatters, living on the edge of Waipoua Forest. They don't even know what they are!! Ngatiwhatua or Ngapuhi. Like the Israelites, driven out of the Bay of Islands to Whangaroa, then fled with Hongi Hika in chase to Waipoua. My Ngaitu people were the earlier settlers, our Tupuna, Chief Kohuru of the funerary chests at Kohekohe. I am angry that the chests were never returned to Kohekohe, but interred in a simple ceremony at Waimamaku without permission.


my question

Posted on 18-11-2013 18:47 | By crazyhorse

My question Minister, the land can never be given to Maori, sitting as a "crown jewel" when it should be returned to Allan Titford, now. I asked Titford to bring me copies, various deeds, Court minutes, successions before writing. I am satisfied what I have witnessed, by the sequence of events, from the time the Crown purchased Maunganui lands from Te Awha Parore in successions, or lease, is compatible with the standard within the law of our country.


where does

Posted on 18-11-2013 18:49 | By crazyhorse

Where does one even begin when trying to make an account of the terror tactics that this innocent couple was subjected to by government rent-a-pricks and iwi goon-squads. There is so much detail to cover and such a huge story to tell. Beyond the daily intimidation, verbal abuse, destruction of machinery, threats, assaults and beatings endured, shots fired at Allan or being run off the road, was the unforgivable treachery coming from cowardly, turn a bind eye government employees or officials, whose sworn duty it was to guarantee the Titford's both legal and physical protection. In the end almost everyone let them down and every mechanism of government seems to have been marshaled against them. Public opinion was manipulated and swayed by a one-sided media to rob the Titfords of any sympathy and support they would have naturally received had the real truth been known.


government departments

Posted on 18-11-2013 18:50 | By crazyhorse

Government departments deliberately withheld significant documents pertinent to their case. Old letters, reports, diaries, land title deeds, survey maps, etc., were suddenly "lost" or temporarily misplaced and unavailable. Government hired historians fudged the true facts of history to stack the deck against the Titfords. Hokianga historian, Joan Leaf, who was called upon to give evidence on their behalf before the Waitangi Tribunal, was forbidden to speak or make her submissions on they day. All of the weight of government was, ultimately, brought into play to crush the Titfords for having the temerity and audacity to answer back and stand their ground. Battle weary, forcibly stripped of their assets under duress and bereft of any options to carry the fight further, they finally went to Australia to lick their wounds.


unfortunately for

Posted on 18-11-2013 18:51 | By crazyhorse

Unfortunately for the New Zealand government, Allan and Susan found further important documents there, relative to their case and while in exile, began accumulating compelling evidence. Records of the 19th century were done in duplicate and often triplicate, with copies going to both New South Wales, Australia and, oftimes, to Archives in Britain. The Titfords made an intensive study, in earnest, and came to realize the size of the deliberately engineered deception they'd been subjected to. They later returned to New Zealand and continued to amass documents from private collections, auctions, libraries or sourced them through individuals "in the know" who were in a position to tell them where important items, embarrassing to the government's or Waitangi Tribunal's untenable position, were stashed and secreted away.


tHE GOOD PEOPLE AT SUNLIVE HAVE HAD TO KEEP COMMENTS TO 150 WORDS

Posted on 18-11-2013 19:30 | By crazyhorse

So looks like Dey has got me on offering up all the corruption I have found, I could post the link to them but it doe's not have the same impact and I find a lot of people are not really sharp with their computer skills. If any one wants to follow up on this get on google and have a look around it's all there you just have to know what to look for.


radically twisted history being presented

Posted on 19-11-2013 08:14 | By crazyhorse

A thorough investigation of all claims lodged before the tribunal and close analysis of the pseudo-history interpretations presented to justify claims would, undoubtedly, show huge omissions and radically twisted history being presented, reminiscent of the case concocted against the Titfords. From, formerly, being rather ordinary farming folk, concerned with the mundane nuts & bolts running of their rural business, Allan and Susan have, of necessity, been transformed into very well-informed, streetwise New Zealanders, with no illusions about the depth of corruption in our present political system. They've experienced, first hand, the brunt and conniving reality of what the Waitangi Tribunal actually does to innocent people or how it caters to liars and fraudsters.


G.Graham is misleading us

Posted on 19-11-2013 08:51 | By Peter Dey

The Waitangi Tribunal is not an apartheid body. If it was an apartheid body it would be able to exercise control over Pakeha Government. In fact the Waitangi tribunal can only make recommendations which the Government does not have to follow, and the Tribunal can certainly not change court rulings.


G Graham

Posted on 19-11-2013 09:15 | By robin bell

has a somewhat convenient(to his cause)overview of history.The Queens Charter simply formalised the annexation of N.Z.The Treaty was the hastily prepared founding document,bringing two people together in partnership.Hasn't worked for some,but hey thats people for you.Sadly G Graham institutions you refer to helped to rob Maori of thier land,culture,dignity etc.Now its turning around and you don't like it one bit.The Waitangi Tribunal most definately does not "write its own history"as you claim.If you need an example of Crown dishonesty,take a close look at the Raglan fiasco.I doubt you will.Does'nt fit does it.Te Roroa was a mess,no question.However the Titfords did receive full market value for the disputed land 3.2 million.Was that fair?Maybe,maybe not.I do know that that Maori never get full market value for land stolen from them.The easy way for some is to claim theft never occured.Are you one of those people? Robin Bell.


Good lawyer material

Posted on 19-11-2013 10:00 | By ow

Peter robin could be a wealthy lawyer !


Crazyhorse is wrong

Posted on 19-11-2013 10:42 | By robin bell

You have not found evidence of corruption.Rather you continually"find"claims of corruption invented by the ultra right.That you keep bringing up the Titfords is proof positive that you have nothing else.The Titford case is mired in doubt,uncertainty and devious claims by all involved.It helped to reinforce the need for the Waitangi Tribunal.There have been no similar cases since.If you really believe that your 1law4all party in all its naivety can reverse the rampant corruption you and they claim.You are all in for a sad reality check.Robin Bell.


Titford's mistake is a lesson for crazyhorse

Posted on 19-11-2013 11:29 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse puts forward the Titford farm as an example of Maori bulldozing over the rights of an innocent Pakeha. In fact Alan Titford wanted to subdivide land that contained Maori burial sites, and wanted the force of the law to bulldoze over Maori concerns and rights. He found that the law no longer allows Pakeha to do this, and also no longer allows crazyhorse to do this with the Rena.


Treaty try-on forces farmer to sell

Posted on 19-11-2013 15:38 | By crazyhorse

Good short articles on the titford farm and corruption in the Waitangi tribunal. http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/mike-butler-treaty-try-on-forces-farmer.html . http://www.treatyofwaitangi.net.nz/TitfordStory/TheTitfordStoryPowerPoint.htm I hope every one knows how to copy and paste these web sites, if not get someone to show you, there's going to0 be a few to look at!!


Titford problems do not prove Tribunal corruption

Posted on 19-11-2013 21:47 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse is still not proving Waitangi Tribunal corruption. All of his references present half the Titford farm story. Alan Titford suffered very harsh treatment from local Maori, but he was the author of his own problems by trying to bulldoze over genuine Maori concerns and Maori rights. The Waitangi Tribunal and Government got him out of a very difficult situation that he created.


SEVEN REASON'S THE TOW TRIBUNAL MUST GO

Posted on 19-11-2013 22:02 | By crazyhorse

A conspicuous absence in the Constitutional Advisory Panel's 'conversation” is debate about the role of the Waitangi Tribunal, a body that exerts disproportionate influence over public life. The Waitangi Tribunal is the 'elephant in the room” - and its absence in the terms of reference that define the constitutional review implies that the Maori Party thinks it is doing a good job advocating for tribalist interests. This article gives seven reasons why the Waitangi Tribunal should be abolished. READ ALL ABOUT IT http://www.nzcpr.com/seven-reasons-why-the-waitangi-tribunal-must-go/


Courts vs Waitangi Tribunal

Posted on 19-11-2013 22:06 | By crazyhorse

There is a major problem between Treaty claims going before the Courts and the same claim going before the taxpayer funded, apartheid Waitangi Tribunal. While the Courts use documented evidence, much of it held in our archives, the Tribunal relies heavily on unproven oral evidence supplied by the claimants and their 'puppet” researcher. READ ALL ABOUT IT. http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/wordpress/courts-vs-waitangi-tribunal/


TOW TRIBUNAL CHANGING HISTORY AGAIN

Posted on 20-11-2013 08:16 | By crazyhorse

The Waitangi Tribunal, in a report on the Tongariro National Park claims released on Tuesday, said that Maori did not nobly gift the cluster of mountains, including Ruapehu and Tongariro, to the Crown in 1887. The Waitangi Tribunal version of Te Heuheu's gift could now become state orthodoxy, Cowan's history could be quietly deleted, and the new history could be indoctrinated into school children, and university students, while anyone who wishes to work in a government department may have to sign up to the new 'truth”. What do you think of that? http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.co.nz/2013/11/mike-butler-gift-now-partnership-denied.html


Titford's mistake is a lesson for crazyhorse

Posted on 20-11-2013 08:30 | By crazyhorse

An example that go's on all the time in NZ, not to this extent, but a "gov't run by the minority", the Titfords had 2 homes burned down, Alloan Titford was beaten, they were shot at, run off the road. Before we go any further let's get something clear, it was the "Titfords farm", they payed for it and had title for it, Maori had no rights to it, what did the NZ police do, sided with the land grabbers, Government departments deliberately withheld significant documents pertinent to their case. Old letters, reports, diaries, land title deeds, survey maps, etc., were suddenly "lost" or temporarily misplaced and unavailable. The Titford's case is a perfect example of the way the corrupt Waitangi Tribunal system works to advantage only one group in New Zealand society.


The Waitangi Tribunal did not force the Titford sale

Posted on 20-11-2013 09:30 | By Peter Dey

Alan Titford was relying on the subdivision of land containing Maori burial sites to repay his loan. He wrongly thought that he could ignore the burial sites, and the local Maori community. He had to sell the farm when he could not subdivide and repay his loan. It was Pakeha arrogance to try and bulldoze over Maori concerns.


It is crazyhorse who has been indoctrinated

Posted on 20-11-2013 10:42 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse does not seem to realise that he has been indoctrinated. He believes that the Waitangi Tribunal is corrupt, but he can produce no credible evidence to prove it. Race relations in New Zealand are heading in a good direction, because injustice by the Pakeha majority towards Maori is being recognised and addressed. This is wisdom not indoctrination. Those, like crazyhorse who preach half-truth, are the indoctrinated.


Corrupt?!*

Posted on 20-11-2013 12:41 | By dms63

Peter, you believe the Waitangi Tribunal is not corrupt....maybe it is you that has been indoctrinated!


@ Peter Dey

Posted on 20-11-2013 14:02 | By Captain Sensible

Why is the racist and biased Waitangi Tribunal never challenged by an equal and opposite Tribunal set up on behalf of the 85%+ of other Kiwis who are racially discriminated against by the Waitangi Tribunal?


embarrassment

Posted on 20-11-2013 14:03 | By Captain Sensible

The never ending greed of griever maori are embarrassing to most Kiwis.


captain sensible, throwing labels proves nothing

Posted on 20-11-2013 16:01 | By Peter Dey

captain sensible accuses Maori of being greedy and grievers, and the Waitangi Tribunal of being racist and biased. These are false labels unsupported by credible evidence. The reason there is no Tribunal for non-Maori is that only Maori have suffered over 100 years of systematic injustice from the Government. Non-Maori are not discriminated against by the Tribunal. Justice for Maori does not equal injustice for non-Maori.


captain sensible, Buddy Mikaere is not being greedy

Posted on 20-11-2013 16:06 | By Peter Dey

Buddy Mikaere is simply asking the Government to use its influence to get Maritime New Zealand's removal notice carried out, and the regional council to not downgrade the status of the Astrolabe reef. For captain sensible to call this greedy is totally unjustified mudslinging.


captain sensible, only the misinformed are embarrassed

Posted on 20-11-2013 17:49 | By Peter Dey

Only the misinformed think that Maori are greedy. Treaty settlements have cost about $2 billion to the taxpayer over the past 25 years. That is about 0.1% of Government spending in that time. People who think that Maori are greedy are simply misinformed. People who say that they are embarrassed by Maori greed are misinformed and embarrassing themselves.


dms63, belief of corruption without proof is indoctrination

Posted on 20-11-2013 17:57 | By Peter Dey

dms63,if somebody believes that the Waitangi Tribunal is corrupt without any credible proof, but just because somebody else says so, then he is indoctrinated.


Crazyhorse, the compensation is nearly completed

Posted on 20-11-2013 18:02 | By crazyhorse

I wanted to get to this point before I commented on this from Dey,this is for the people who have read all the comments and visited all the links. We have a "grievance industry" not to be mistaken for a "grievance process". Once you get your head around that it makes it all a lot easier to understand, to iwi its big business. Lets look at this not from an angry tax payer, but from the business side of things, Dey said claims are nearing an end, remember we are talking business, would you walk away from a business that earned you millions of dollars a year and it was completely paid for by the NZ tax payer, do you think treaty troughing lawyers are going to let that happen. "Think about this real carefully"


Iwi claim treaty breach on Rena

Posted on 20-11-2013 18:26 | By crazyhorse

Now we put all our information together and go through this again, we have proven the TOW industry is corrupt, we have that from the horses mouth, they have used false evidence to push claims through, not all, but it has been done, we have proved this, also this is big business for iwi so lets use this and the Ruataniwha dam as examples the iwi dealing in the dam business has said it is culturally devastated, but, give them 5 cents a cubic meter of water and all is forgiven, now for the motiti mob, that Rena wreck will stay there, buddy knows that the gov't knows that, remember iwi big business, soon we will have a statement released from the TOW the treaty lawyers will get involved and by now you should all know what will happen, my bet "buddy to win big time", that's me done, bye!!!!


sorry crazyhorse, assertion without evidence is not proof

Posted on 20-11-2013 22:09 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse has written several thousand words and in all of that he has given us one piece of evidence from John Robinson of bad practice by the Waitangi Tribunal, and no other evidence to prove anything. He certainly has not proved the Tribunal is corrupt. He asserts that any compensation claimed by Maori is greed. Crazyhorse is picking on Maori and ignoring everybody else claiming compensation. That is irrational.


crazyhorse, there is no grievance industry

Posted on 20-11-2013 22:30 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse, lawyers are highly paid. Treaty settlement lawyers are simply doing a professional job managing legitimate claims. Accusing them of running a grievance industry when they are simply part of the Government Treaty settlement process is just mudslinging. The Government is in charge of Treaty settlements, not the lawyers.


FOR PETER DEY AND ROBIN BELL

Posted on 21-11-2013 08:51 | By crazyhorse

The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode their rights by a thousand tiny almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed" - Adolf Hitler


The Te Roroa Iwi

Posted on 21-11-2013 09:43 | By robin bell

Deserve a sincere apology from all the misinformed cynics that plague these columns.Crazyhorse in particular.In fact all Maori have been insulted on a regular basis and should be given the dignity of an apology.Lets see what Crazy and his friends are really made of. Robin Bell.


crazyhorse should stop quoting the Titford farm dispute

Posted on 21-11-2013 10:40 | By Peter Dey

Allan Titford has now been found guilty in court of violence, perjury, and attempting to pervert justice. He has been sentenced to 24 years in jail. His credibility as a witness is now much reduced. It is even less credible now for crazyhorse to quote the Titford farm dispute as evidence of Waitangi Tribunal corruption.


Get Rid of the Rena

Posted on 21-11-2013 14:12 | By Mary Faith

I don't care who goes about trying to remove the wreck or what means they chose to use - lets just get it away from our waters !


crazyhorse quoting Hitler has lost touch with reality

Posted on 21-11-2013 20:22 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse says that Hitler took control of the German people by taking a little of their freedom at a time. He seems to be suggesting that Maori are going to do the same in New Zealand. Maori cannot take control of the New Zealand Government, police, army, or local government at all, let alone a little bit at a time. Crazyhorse has lost the plot completely.


crazyhorse, the Tongariro report is probably more accurate

Posted on 21-11-2013 21:12 | By Peter Dey

The Waitangi Tribunal report on the Tongariro claim is very well documented. It seems most likely that it is more historically correct than earlier versions of history written by Pakeha. A lot of our early history is written from a Pakeha perspective. If historians now see things differently, then their rewriting makes their history not false but more correct.


crazyhorse should stop quoting the Titford farm dispute

Posted on 21-11-2013 21:32 | By crazyhorse

This doe's not alter legally how he and his family were dealt with, just puts him in the same category as convicted fraudster and ex treaty minister "SIR" Doug Graham, who carried on ripping Kiwi off but in a finance company this time. That's my last comment this time around but you and Bell "BLAZE AWAY' with out me.


crazyhorse, seven reasons the Tribunal should not go

Posted on 21-11-2013 22:08 | By Peter Dey

Here is a response to crazyhorse's 1law4all claim that the Waitangi Tribunal should go. 1 The Waitangi Tribunal does not create a race fault line because we are already a nation of two cultures. 2 If the Tribunal rewrites history it makes it more correct by using more information. 3 The Tribunal is not biased if all it does is provide genuine compensation for Maori. 4 The Tribunal does not undermine private property rights, because it accepts no claims over private property. 5 The Tribunal has not failed to meet public expectations, because it was not set up to solve Maori poverty. 6 The Tribunal does not create a ‘gravy train', because it has used less than 0.1% of Government spending. 7 The Tribunal has not been used to extract excessive benefits for tribal interests.


The truth of the Titford farm will always be in doubt

Posted on 22-11-2013 12:05 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse ignores the fact that Allan Titford's version of events concerning his farm and the Waitangi Tribunal will now always be in doubt. He has been convicted of perjury.


Haere ra crazyhorse, without you there is little to correct

Posted on 22-11-2013 15:02 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse you seem to write a great deal of half-truth and misinformation. Without your comments there is very little that needs to be said.


Te Roroa had lost the majority of all their land pre 1840 Treaty in previous battles,

Posted on 28-11-2013 08:15 | By crazyhorse

but Parore Te Awha, who was related to Te Roroa, allowed them the Waipoua block. 'Te Roroa people are only squatters, living on the edge of Waipoua Forest”, stated the late and respected hereditary Ngapuhi chief Graham Rankin. The Waitangi Tribunal now has more power than the government and can order the return of state owned assets. Submissions being heard by a select committee, in most cases with a vested interest in the claim, can mislead Parliament to allow a fraudulent claim to proceed. Such has happened with the ‘alleged' Te Roroa claim. READ THE TRUTH, LIKE IT OR NOT. http://www.elocal.co.nz/view_Article~id~975+++++++.html


LIKE IT OR NOT THIS HAPPENED

Posted on 28-11-2013 08:23 | By crazyhorse

I think what Allan Titford did to his family was horrible, and I am not saying he did not contribute to the trouble caused, BUT, THE TRUTH IS THIS TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE HAPPENED, NO ONE CAN DENY THAT.


The Tribunal is more credible than crazyhorse or Allan Titford

Posted on 28-11-2013 18:25 | By Peter Dey

The Waitangi Tribunal did not accept the version of history presented by Allan Titford. The Waitangi Tribunal has greater credibility than crazyhorse, Allan Titford, e-local, or Graham Rankin. Crazyhorse has never produced credible evidence of fraud in the Ngai Tahu, Tainui, Kaingaroa, Sealords, Ngati Ranginui, or Tuhoe settlements. Disliking Waitangi Tribunal decisions does not make Tribunal decisions wrong. Repeating hearsay from other people is not credible evidence.


Haere ra crazyhorse, without you there is little to debate

Posted on 28-11-2013 18:34 | By Peter Dey

Because Allan Titford was found guilty of perjury in court, the truth of anything he said is now in doubt. People who try to quote the Titford farm dispute as injustice by Maori against Pakeha are not basing their opinion on credible evidence because there is none. Opinions of individuals alone are not credible evidence.


crazyhorse seems blind to Government injustice toward Maori

Posted on 28-11-2013 22:13 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse keeps accusing the Waitangi Tribunal of making up history. All the Tribunal is doing is using the much greater information now available to get a clearer view of history. In Tauranga, Ngai Te Rangi fought against the Crown, the Crown confiscated Ngati Ranginui land. That injustice was only accepted by the Government in 2012. The Tribunal did not rewrite history. They made it clear.


Haere ra crazyhorse, without you there is little to debate

Posted on 29-11-2013 08:59 | By crazyhorse

I am not here to judge, or tell people what or how they should think Dey,I just hand out another perspective on whats going on, weather you like it or not anybody who has read all posts on TOW tribunal and visited the sites posted will come away thinking a little differently, don't like that do you Dey, "suck it up princess", we are here to stay.


People need to realise that crazyhorse's internet sites are biased

Posted on 29-11-2013 22:21 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse has presented a great many references with an anti Waitangi Tribunal bias. They all believe that written records from Government sources are more valid than local Maori historical opinions. This is a flawed belief which our local Treaty settlement shows clearly. The Crown fought against Ngai Te Rangi but confiscated land from another iwi, Ngati Ranginui. After nearly 150 years Government error is now accepted, even by Michael Bassett.


People need to realise that crazyhorse's internet sites are biased

Posted on 30-11-2013 08:46 | By crazyhorse

Dey says the sites I use are bias, the Waitangi tribunal run by maori for maori, "sometimes" using false evedince or leaving evedince out is not, how do we work that out?,remember we have proved this, "judge Drury admitted it".


crazyhorse is misrepresenting Eddie Durie

Posted on 30-11-2013 09:07 | By Peter Dey

Judge Eddie Dury did not condone bad practice by the Waitangi Tribunal. The examples of bad practice that he quoted were not widespread, and he proposed a code of ethics for researchers to avoid bad practice. Crazyhorse keeps producing isolated examples as though these prove that everything the Tribunal does is fraud. One swallow does not a summer make.


Racist rorts in draft Auckland Plan

Posted on 30-11-2013 09:08 | By crazyhorse

As well as an unelected maori board "pushed" on to Auckland council costing rate payers millions of dollars a year, without any consultation with the public now we have."In the process will arise an Auckland-wide Maori-owned industry of ticket-clipping, rent-seeking, danegelding and legalised corruption, imposed on land developers, occupiers, residents and ratepayers under the guise of iwi consultation. This parasitic pseudo-cultural industry would be of no benefit to the future development of Auckland. http://www.nzcpr.com/racist-rorts-in-draft-auckland-plan/


crazyhorse, the Waitangi Tribunal decisions are fair

Posted on 30-11-2013 09:18 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse complains about the members of the Waitangi Tribunal being a majority Maori. This does not make their decisions biased. It just means that they are more knowledgeable about Treaty issues. Michael Bassett claimed that Tauranga Maori should not have supported Waikato Maori in 1864. That was pure opinion with an ill-informed Pakeha bias. Michael Bassett supported the final Tauranga Tribunal decision, but disagreed with the justification.


crazyhorse, Maori are not ripping off non-Maori

Posted on 30-11-2013 10:28 | By Peter Dey

crazyhorse started off by accusing Buddy Mikaere of bludging, when Buddy had said nothing at all about wanting money. Now crazyhorse is accusing Auckland Maori of bludging because the Auckland Council is wanting iwi consultation over some excavations. The only ancient human remains in New Zealand are Maori. All countries show respect to ancient human remains. Showing respect to ancient Maori remains is common international practice, not bludging.


The only ancient human remains in New Zealand are Maori.

Posted on 30-11-2013 10:47 | By crazyhorse

Not even maori agree with you on that LOL. The deadline for feedback on the draft Auckland Unitary Plan closed on Friday, 31 May. In its flyer notifying of the feedback period, the Auckland Council states, 'The draft plan covers many critical issues that Aucklanders feel strongly about - so we want your feedback to help create the best plan possible.” "All Aucklanders" it does not appear so. The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode their rights by a thousand tiny almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed" - Adolf Hitler


keep up on titford case, maybe not all it seems!

Posted on 30-11-2013 11:27 | By crazyhorse

Just can't leave this alone, been some really interesting stuff going on behind scenes, have a look for yourselves. http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/ http://treatygate.wordpress.com/


FROM NELSON MANDELA

Posted on 07-12-2013 09:59 | By crazyhorse

The value of our shared reward will and must be measured by the joyful peace which will triumph, because the common humanity that bonds both black and white into one human race, will have said to each one of us that we shall all live like the children of paradise. Thus shall we live, because we will have created a society which recognize that all people are born equal, with each entitled in equal measure to life, liberty, prosperity, human rights and good governance. Such a society should never allow again that there should be prisoners of conscience nor that any person's human right should be violated.


Racist rorts in draft Auckland Plan

Posted on 13-12-2013 20:10 | By crazyhorse

There are some other gems to unearth in the draft plan. For example in the rules section, Maori land rule 4.4.5.1.2 Notification states, 'Discretionary activities in the Maori Land overlay will be considered without public or limited notification, or the need to obtain written approval from affected parties, unless special circumstances exist in accordance with s. 95A(4) of the RMA that make notification desirable.” The Maori land overlay is comprised of areas drawn in with a violet outline on maps supplied with the draft plan, and can be seen overlaid on Bastion Point, for example. It seems asymmetric that Maori can skip notifying the public or gaining written approval from affected parties for their own discretionary activities, when they would be very likely to demand these same rights for themselves over any other party's discretionary activities.


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